Royal Ramey

You get better food, you get visits in a park-like setting, dormitory living. You get out in the community and folks are eligible to get time off. But for me, it exposed me to that career that I love now.

You get better food, you get visits in a park-like setting, dormitory living. You get out in the community and folks are eligible to get time off. But for me, it exposed me to that career that I love now.

You get better food, you get visits in a park-like setting, dormitory living. You get out in the community and folks are eligible to get time off. But for me, it exposed me to that career that I love now.

I fell in love with it, but I didn't have a blueprint. I was just lost.

I fell in love with it, but I didn't have a blueprint. I was just lost.

So honestly, around the time that I went to prison, it was overcrowding in California. So I ended up getting transferred to Arizona and then Mississippi. And I was in prison for about 20-plus months, close to two years. In Mississippi? So I went to Arizona first and then Mississippi. So it was like that time of being out of state.

So honestly, around the time that I went to prison, it was overcrowding in California. So I ended up getting transferred to Arizona and then Mississippi. And I was in prison for about 20-plus months, close to two years. In Mississippi? So I went to Arizona first and then Mississippi. So it was like that time of being out of state.

You know, it was an opportunity for me to go back to California, see my family, because I didn't see them for that amount of time. Oh, wow. And, you know, obviously, I heard the rumors around, like, it's better food. You know, you have a dormitory, you know, setting when you're out there. It's not like you're behind in a cell.

You know, it was an opportunity for me to go back to California, see my family, because I didn't see them for that amount of time. Oh, wow. And, you know, obviously, I heard the rumors around, like, it's better food. You know, you have a dormitory, you know, setting when you're out there. It's not like you're behind in a cell.

And you're not, or you can be able to get the most money that you can earn in prison, which is a dollar an hour on fires, right?

And you're not, or you can be able to get the most money that you can earn in prison, which is a dollar an hour on fires, right?

Like, yeah, so you make about around $26 a day when you're out there fighting a fire. So that's the most money you can make in prison. Okay.

Like, yeah, so you make about around $26 a day when you're out there fighting a fire. So that's the most money you can make in prison. Okay.

Yeah, it's the best. It's one of the best programs that California Department of Correction and Rehabilitation has, actually. Especially when it comes down to when you, you know, you, most people when they come home, they come home with $200 of gate money, right? Right. And then have an opportunity to go to fire camp, you know, gain a family-winning career in the fire sector, right? That's like...

Yeah, it's the best. It's one of the best programs that California Department of Correction and Rehabilitation has, actually. Especially when it comes down to when you, you know, you, most people when they come home, they come home with $200 of gate money, right? Right. And then have an opportunity to go to fire camp, you know, gain a family-winning career in the fire sector, right? That's like...

A lot of folks don't, you can't even fathom of like never having a job like that, like having a career, you know, just having that felony, you know, in your record, right?

A lot of folks don't, you can't even fathom of like never having a job like that, like having a career, you know, just having that felony, you know, in your record, right?

To being able to possibly have a six-figure career benefits retirement and be able to be, take care of your family, you know, for a long time.

To being able to possibly have a six-figure career benefits retirement and be able to be, take care of your family, you know, for a long time.

Yeah, it is. It is. It changed my life, honestly, John. It gave me an opportunity to know what a team kind of feel like. And when you're out there fighting fires and you have to rely on the next person, you know, it does take a lot. You know, it takes a lot of courage and being able to, like, you know,

Yeah, it is. It is. It changed my life, honestly, John. It gave me an opportunity to know what a team kind of feel like. And when you're out there fighting fires and you have to rely on the next person, you know, it does take a lot. You know, it takes a lot of courage and being able to, like, you know,

come together when the fire's raging and you're out there on the line and you're putting your life on the line, it does give you a sense of teamwork and partnership with folks that you probably never have had a communication with in a positive light when you're out there in the streets. Because you gotta think about it. It's folks that's been in gangs, right? Had some trauma in their life.

come together when the fire's raging and you're out there on the line and you're putting your life on the line, it does give you a sense of teamwork and partnership with folks that you probably never have had a communication with in a positive light when you're out there in the streets. Because you gotta think about it. It's folks that's been in gangs, right? Had some trauma in their life.

And it's segregation within California prisons. There's a lot of politics in it. So, you know, race, you know, is a big thing.

And it's segregation within California prisons. There's a lot of politics in it. So, you know, race, you know, is a big thing.

Nah, you have to put that all to the side and you accrue. So you have a mixture of folks.

Nah, you have to put that all to the side and you accrue. So you have a mixture of folks.

That's the deal. Yeah, absolutely. So when you're out there on those big fire campaigns, you see signs that says, thank you, firefighters. And then when you actually doing the work, the same thing that you would see a hot shot crew do or a type two crew that would do, you're doing pretty much the same work. So you do feel that sense of pride and purpose.

That's the deal. Yeah, absolutely. So when you're out there on those big fire campaigns, you see signs that says, thank you, firefighters. And then when you actually doing the work, the same thing that you would see a hot shot crew do or a type two crew that would do, you're doing pretty much the same work. So you do feel that sense of pride and purpose.

And it gives you a way to be able to utilize the knowledge, skills and abilities that you learned in fire camp to transition into the fire service professionally. And that's what the forestry and fire recruitment do.

And it gives you a way to be able to utilize the knowledge, skills and abilities that you learned in fire camp to transition into the fire service professionally. And that's what the forestry and fire recruitment do.

Now, you still got some more certifications that you would need in order for you to be able to be a professional firefighter.

Now, you still got some more certifications that you would need in order for you to be able to be a professional firefighter.

Yeah, it's some things to that, definitely, right?

Yeah, it's some things to that, definitely, right?

But, you know, it's definitely things to that.

But, you know, it's definitely things to that.

Right, right, a little bit, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, just being transparent and real is definitely, like, it's a gatekeeping thing, I think. And a lot of folks don't understand the actual process, right? Like, you have to have the certifications, right?

Right, right, a little bit, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, just being transparent and real is definitely, like, it's a gatekeeping thing, I think. And a lot of folks don't understand the actual process, right? Like, you have to have the certifications, right?

to be able to apply to these positions you have to understand you know what to put on the resume right how to apply to the job like making sure that you read everything right and then but they train you yes okay so you get the train you don't just get prisoners and go like come on let's go yeah they give you minimum training they do um but there's anybody in there like for arson they're on there and you're like hey phil you

to be able to apply to these positions you have to understand you know what to put on the resume right how to apply to the job like making sure that you read everything right and then but they train you yes okay so you get the train you don't just get prisoners and go like come on let's go yeah they give you minimum training they do um but there's anybody in there like for arson they're on there and you're like hey phil you

Hey.

Hey.

No, no. You're not allowed to. I would think of you. No, you can't have arson, and you can't have, like I said, you can't. Hey, it could be the dumbest question I've ever asked. No, and the sex crime, that's one of the two major things. I think they're trying to revisit some things around certain violent crimes. But they're trying to, you know, evaluate.

No, no. You're not allowed to. I would think of you. No, you can't have arson, and you can't have, like I said, you can't. Hey, it could be the dumbest question I've ever asked. No, and the sex crime, that's one of the two major things. I think they're trying to revisit some things around certain violent crimes. But they're trying to, you know, evaluate.

And my big, my best, one of my best friend and mentor, Ralph Diaz, he would kill me. And Fred Money would kill me. Oh, don't worry, you won't see this. They would tell me if I was rogue or not. But no, it's definitely, they have some requirements for you to be able to be here.

And my big, my best, one of my best friend and mentor, Ralph Diaz, he would kill me. And Fred Money would kill me. Oh, don't worry, you won't see this. They would tell me if I was rogue or not. But no, it's definitely, they have some requirements for you to be able to be here.

You ready for the real deal at Holyville? Be honest with you. I don't know what the I was getting myself into. Really? They say fire camp. I'm a kid from the inner city. Like, fire camp, fire, OK, around a camp. Like, you thought, you know what I'm saying? Like, I didn't know.

You ready for the real deal at Holyville? Be honest with you. I don't know what the I was getting myself into. Really? They say fire camp. I'm a kid from the inner city. Like, fire camp, fire, OK, around a camp. Like, you thought, you know what I'm saying? Like, I didn't know.

Right.

Right.

Right. I didn't know. Like, honestly, like, it wasn't like, oh, you're going to be on the front lines. You're going to be fighting fire. You're going to carry this pack. You're going to be having this tool. And it's dangerous. Right. You're going to be working 24-hour shifts. You're going to be doing, you know. Like, I'm like, what? Like. That's why.

Right. I didn't know. Like, honestly, like, it wasn't like, oh, you're going to be on the front lines. You're going to be fighting fire. You're going to carry this pack. You're going to be having this tool. And it's dangerous. Right. You're going to be working 24-hour shifts. You're going to be doing, you know. Like, I'm like, what? Like. That's why.

Fighting fire, like, and when I first got to camp, and it was like, here, you know, gave my equipment, and we start hiking. I'm like, it was like, yeah, here's these boots. And I'm like, I'm used to wearing Nikes, right? Like, boots? Like, okay, then did I get the boots? And okay, and they gave me a pack and a tool, and we hiking. I'm like, man, I got it. You know, I need to ask him.

Fighting fire, like, and when I first got to camp, and it was like, here, you know, gave my equipment, and we start hiking. I'm like, it was like, yeah, here's these boots. And I'm like, I'm used to wearing Nikes, right? Like, boots? Like, okay, then did I get the boots? And okay, and they gave me a pack and a tool, and we hiking. I'm like, man, I got it. You know, I need to ask him.

I'm like, whoa, like, this is intense. But I end up talking to one of my captains, and he was like, Ramey, you're one of the youngest dudes on the crew, and you're the slowest one, you know, dude on the crew, right? And I'm like, you know, just being from the inner city, you know, in so many words, he was like, you calling me a, you know... a sissy in this thing, right? You're a little something.

I'm like, whoa, like, this is intense. But I end up talking to one of my captains, and he was like, Ramey, you're one of the youngest dudes on the crew, and you're the slowest one, you know, dude on the crew, right? And I'm like, you know, just being from the inner city, you know, in so many words, he was like, you calling me a, you know... a sissy in this thing, right? You're a little something.

You're a little something.

You're a little something.

So to answer the second question first, so the training was about a couple of weeks, just like physical training. that you get, and then you go into like a classroom setting where you get the S190.

So to answer the second question first, so the training was about a couple of weeks, just like physical training. that you get, and then you go into like a classroom setting where you get the S190.

I know a couple people are gonna kill me for this, but it's the entry level position, or entry certification for wildland fire behavior, and then from there you kinda like get a pack and you gotta make sure you hike within a certain amount of time, and then once you complete that, then you're eligible to go to a fire camp. That was when I was, you know, there in 2012.

I know a couple people are gonna kill me for this, but it's the entry level position, or entry certification for wildland fire behavior, and then from there you kinda like get a pack and you gotta make sure you hike within a certain amount of time, and then once you complete that, then you're eligible to go to a fire camp. That was when I was, you know, there in 2012.

yes yes so it's a couple things so you got um so the main objective is to they pretty much train and deploy folks that's incarcerated to fight fire um wildland fires right and then um when you're not fighting fires you out there doing fire prevention work or projects within the community so that's one of the um pluses too is like you're not in actually in the cell you're actually in the community doing different you know work or whatever it could be a project you know could be laying you know

yes yes so it's a couple things so you got um so the main objective is to they pretty much train and deploy folks that's incarcerated to fight fire um wildland fires right and then um when you're not fighting fires you out there doing fire prevention work or projects within the community so that's one of the um pluses too is like you're not in actually in the cell you're actually in the community doing different you know work or whatever it could be a project you know could be laying you know

Cement somewhere. Right, right. You could be, you know, doing cutting brush, or you can do weed abatement.

Cement somewhere. Right, right. You could be, you know, doing cutting brush, or you can do weed abatement.

you're on the other side of that where you're like we want to get into this business there are a lot of gatekeepers that keep us out but boy we're we're capable right right and how do you reckon that so you just so I'm a doer right so when I first was in fire camp obviously it was a transition for me mentally emotionally you know spiritually and you know I grew to love it and I fell in love with it and it was it was that one thing in my head was like man like

you're on the other side of that where you're like we want to get into this business there are a lot of gatekeepers that keep us out but boy we're we're capable right right and how do you reckon that so you just so I'm a doer right so when I first was in fire camp obviously it was a transition for me mentally emotionally you know spiritually and you know I grew to love it and I fell in love with it and it was it was that one thing in my head was like man like

I want to do this. I want to do this for my career. I want to make this happen, right? And me and my co-founder, Brandon Smith, he, you know, we was talking one day, and it was like, look, man, you know, you want to be able to do it. I want to do it. Let's figure this out, you know, and be like the modern-day Harriet Tubman of the fire service, right? Right. Underground fire.

I want to do this. I want to do this for my career. I want to make this happen, right? And me and my co-founder, Brandon Smith, he, you know, we was talking one day, and it was like, look, man, you know, you want to be able to do it. I want to do it. Let's figure this out, you know, and be like the modern-day Harriet Tubman of the fire service, right? Right. Underground fire.

Yeah, yeah. And just the cultural thing, too, and understanding that, you know, you're going to have to do, you're going to put in the work. You've got to make sure that you understand the culture, understand how to be a professional, because you've got a lot of folks that consider people that have been incarcerated as zeros, right? Right. And then when you look at them as a hero, it's like a,

Yeah, yeah. And just the cultural thing, too, and understanding that, you know, you're going to have to do, you're going to put in the work. You've got to make sure that you understand the culture, understand how to be a professional, because you've got a lot of folks that consider people that have been incarcerated as zeros, right? Right. And then when you look at them as a hero, it's like a,

you know, a public nuisance and a public servant. Like, that kind of, like, doesn't mix our, you know, prison and public service don't mix. And you have to change that narrative with people because once, because I remember when I was actually, I went to my first pretty much, like, month in my job with Cal Fire, and one of my captains was like, hey, we went on this fire.

you know, a public nuisance and a public servant. Like, that kind of, like, doesn't mix our, you know, prison and public service don't mix. And you have to change that narrative with people because once, because I remember when I was actually, I went to my first pretty much, like, month in my job with Cal Fire, and one of my captains was like, hey, we went on this fire.

I was cutting with the saw and stuff. He was like, man, you did a pretty good job with that. Like, where did you learn that from? Like, usually, and usually folks like myself, learned that in camp, right? And I was like, you know, I kind of shied away from it. Yeah, I worked for the Forest Service first, so it was like, you know, I kind of had that kind of feel.

I was cutting with the saw and stuff. He was like, man, you did a pretty good job with that. Like, where did you learn that from? Like, usually, and usually folks like myself, learned that in camp, right? And I was like, you know, I kind of shied away from it. Yeah, I worked for the Forest Service first, so it was like, you know, I kind of had that kind of feel.

But I wanted to make sure that they looked at me as a human being first and not just based off of what, you know, my previous experiences were when I was in prison.

But I wanted to make sure that they looked at me as a human being first and not just based off of what, you know, my previous experiences were when I was in prison.

No!

No!

What?

What?

What?

What?

Ooh.

Ooh.

No, obviously we'll appeal it.

No, obviously we'll appeal it.