Rutger Bregman

Well, look, the reason I wrote this book was that I actually became a little bit frustrated with myself. I had a little bit of an early midlife crisis because I was mainly spending time in this quote-unquote awareness business.

Well, look, the reason I wrote this book was that I actually became a little bit frustrated with myself. I had a little bit of an early midlife crisis because I was mainly spending time in this quote-unquote awareness business.

You know, you write articles, you write books, you try to convince people of certain opinions, and then you hope that some other people do the actual work of making the world a better place. And at the time, I was... working on a new book about the great moral pioneers of the past, you know, the abolitionists, the suffragettes. I wanted to learn more about them.

You know, you write articles, you write books, you try to convince people of certain opinions, and then you hope that some other people do the actual work of making the world a better place. And at the time, I was... working on a new book about the great moral pioneers of the past, you know, the abolitionists, the suffragettes. I wanted to learn more about them.

But as I was studying some of their biographies, I experienced this emotion that I sometimes like to describe as moral envy, where you're just standing on the sidelines and you're just wishing like, gosh, Wouldn't it be awesome to actually be in the arena, to actually have some skin in the game?

But as I was studying some of their biographies, I experienced this emotion that I sometimes like to describe as moral envy, where you're just standing on the sidelines and you're just wishing like, gosh, Wouldn't it be awesome to actually be in the arena, to actually have some skin in the game?

So that's when I quit that project and was like, okay, I'm going to write almost like a self-help book that will make my own life more difficult. Because once I've finished it, you know, I'm going to be the first person who will actually follow its guidance.

So that's when I quit that project and was like, okay, I'm going to write almost like a self-help book that will make my own life more difficult. Because once I've finished it, you know, I'm going to be the first person who will actually follow its guidance.

Well, I basically quit my job. So I'm now an entrepreneur. I co-founded the School for Moral Ambition, which is an organization that helps as many people as possible to devote their career to some of the most pressing challenges we face as a species. So we like to see ourselves as the Robin Hoods of talent. Robin Hood famously took away the money from the rich.

Well, I basically quit my job. So I'm now an entrepreneur. I co-founded the School for Moral Ambition, which is an organization that helps as many people as possible to devote their career to some of the most pressing challenges we face as a species. So we like to see ourselves as the Robin Hoods of talent. Robin Hood famously took away the money from the rich.

Well, we take away the talent from the rich. So yeah, for example, we were recently invited by a couple of students at Harvard who are excited to start a Harvard chapter around the idea of moral ambition. And I think that's quite fitting because like, okay, here you have the most prestigious university in the world and 45% of graduates end up in consultancy or finance, right?

Well, we take away the talent from the rich. So yeah, for example, we were recently invited by a couple of students at Harvard who are excited to start a Harvard chapter around the idea of moral ambition. And I think that's quite fitting because like, okay, here you have the most prestigious university in the world and 45% of graduates end up in consultancy or finance, right?

It's an extraordinary waste of talent.

It's an extraordinary waste of talent.

Yeah, well, look, it's a free country. So if people really desperately want to work for McKinsey and their main goal in life is to go skiing as often as possible and to have that nice little cottage on the beach, Sure, fine. People have the right to be a little bit boring.

Yeah, well, look, it's a free country. So if people really desperately want to work for McKinsey and their main goal in life is to go skiing as often as possible and to have that nice little cottage on the beach, Sure, fine. People have the right to be a little bit boring.

But I think there are quite a few people out there who indeed may be working at, say, Goldman Sachs or Boston Consulting Group who have this dang feeling, who are looking for a way out. One of the case studies in the book is about the British abolitionists.

But I think there are quite a few people out there who indeed may be working at, say, Goldman Sachs or Boston Consulting Group who have this dang feeling, who are looking for a way out. One of the case studies in the book is about the British abolitionists.

And it was really surprising for me when I discovered that of the British Society for the Abolition of the Slave Trade, there were 12 founders and 10 out of 12 were entrepreneurs. So these were people who had climbed the traditional ladder of success. They were quite wealthy. They were successful. But the reason we remember them today is because they became very morally ambitious.

And it was really surprising for me when I discovered that of the British Society for the Abolition of the Slave Trade, there were 12 founders and 10 out of 12 were entrepreneurs. So these were people who had climbed the traditional ladder of success. They were quite wealthy. They were successful. But the reason we remember them today is because they became very morally ambitious.