Ruth Ben-Ghiat

So there's these structures and processes that we see abroad are happening here.

But we've had a huge amount of pushback.

There have been over 330 legal cases, many of them, like, ruled upon by Trump-appointed judges that have either slowed down or turned back what Trump's trying to do.

So that's going on.

And then, of course, we're here.

We wouldn't be here in some countries, all the independent media people.

We wouldn't be able to speak frankly the way we do.

And so there are many indications that democratic elements are still with us, for sure.

But they're doing their best to try and wreck our democracy, and it's been very fast over the last year.

So it's kind of both, which maybe isn't a satisfying answer.

It is death-by-a-thousand-cuts that sets up institutions and the public...

to accept or it makes possible the big things, if the big things happen.

So obviously bringing the military in for domestic use, which they test ran that with the Marines last June in LA,

They were so threatened by the sight of ordinary people coming and helping people threatened by ice.

And that was one of the first cities that this resistance, this remarkable resistance that we have across the nation, that was the first place.

So they sent the Marines in.

So that would be one thing.

Obviously, fooling with elections, nationalizing elections, whatever that would mean, having a junta style of ICE thugs who are taking the place of other kinds of thugs who used to be the poll watchers, which were a problem, armed militia members and stuff like that.

But this would be...

This would be done by the state.