Ruth Ben-Ghiat

So that's moral deregulation.

And his partner at the beginning of this nightmare was Musk, who thinks similarly.

So we gave him a place in government and said, go at it, just wreck everything.

because it's all about that's back to fascism it's like destruction and mussolini called it creative destruction and you can be like that if you have no morals you're amoral so that's what we're faced with so i've been talking about moral collapse and the need for a re renewal of morals and like we need a democratic politics that foregrounds values yes like

Like simple values that you learn, used to learn in school.

Right.

You know, like justice, equality, don't beat other people up or there might be a consequence.

Yeah.

Golden rule.

It is a feature and it's called the authoritarian bargain and all of them do it.

All the autocrats do it.

It means bargains that you make with elites.

Could be media elites, tech elites today, business elites, religious elites.

And the bargain is it's like a pact, a deal that I will give you lots of opportunities to make money.

and promote you and not stand in your way, not persecute you.

In return, you have to be loyal to me.

You could outwardly support me, but you must not criticize me.

no matter what I say or do, no matter what happens.

And these bargains, they happened under Mussolini and under Mobutu, they're just part of how it works.

Yeah, Putin for sure.