Ryan Knudson

And then Lanier says, how much have you pledged to the victims of social media?

To which Mark Zuckerberg says, I disagree with the characterization of that.

And they just sort of go back and forth a few times about this.

Megan says a lot of the testimony was like this.

Lanier would pose a question or pull up an internal document, and Zuckerberg would disagree with the premise.

Zuckerberg would say, you know, you're taking this out of context or you're mischaracterizing this.

This isn't what I meant by that.

Over the course of several hours, Lanier tried to paint a picture of a company that was always trying to increase user engagement.

At one point, he showed an internal meta email from 2015 in which Zuckerberg stated his goal for the following year was to increase users' time spent by 12%.

And Lanier saying, well, you've actually had pretty explicit goals around how much time you want users to spend on the platform.

To which then Zuckerberg says, well, we used to in the past, but we don't anymore.

So he sort of backtracked a little bit there.

Zuckerberg testified that if users spent more time on the platform, it wasn't a sign it was addictive.

It was a sign that users got more value from it.

He's saying that we want to build something that has value for people.

And if we do that, they're going to spend more time on the app.

And that's what is driving us at the moment.

Lanier also asked about Meta's relationship with young users.

He pulled out another 2015 internal Meta email that estimated that 4 million children under 13 were using Instagram.

Lanier said that estimate would represent approximately 30% of all children aged 10 to 12 in the U.S.,