Ryan Peterman

And so do you think that stuff was really unfortunate?

And especially I think actually in the AI world has been especially unfortunate because it means like,

Unless someone is clear how using the AI tooling is going to get them promoted, they may not do it.

But it is without doubt in my mind, the only thing that's going to matter for actual professional development and growth and actually being able to do more interesting work in the future.

I mean, unless your VP is ready to fix that and totally shut it down, you have to play the game.

It's totally irrational not to play the game.

And I think if you don't want to be in that, we have to leave the org.

If you're there, you've got to play the game.

You cannot be the one who sort of unilaterally disarms

But it is, I mean, it was mind-blowing to me to see this culture, I think, was unique to both monetization and AI infra, but it was completely dominant in AI infra.

And it was really, it was not great for any parties.

And for me, it was like, it wasn't even good for the people who were in it.

Like they themselves had gotten to this rat race that seemed to be demoralizing to them.

I think there are sort of two high sources of uncertainty that compete, and I don't quite know how they balance out.

But I think one is like,

I think people have a ton of agency in choosing the culture of the team they want to be on.

And if they're in a situation like that and they don't love it, meta has a lot of teams that don't have that culture.

There are a lot of teams, like Pike Twitch was one of them, where people were just like genuinely in it for the love of the craft.

And people loved engineering as engineering in PyTorch in a way that I think was not present in a bunch of other parts of meta.

I think people wanted to come to PyTorch for that reason.