Sabrina Tavernisi

So the practice was broad enough throughout the military that it had a name and, you know, people knew it. That implies scope.

So the practice was broad enough throughout the military that it had a name and, you know, people knew it. That implies scope.

Okay, so in other words, mosquitoes are kind of like Bashir, the pharmacist. They maybe got swept up in something inside Gaza, but wasps were different. They were brought from Israel back to Gaza and used there. But why would that happen? What is the purpose of moving them? It seems quite complicated to do.

Okay, so in other words, mosquitoes are kind of like Bashir, the pharmacist. They maybe got swept up in something inside Gaza, but wasps were different. They were brought from Israel back to Gaza and used there. But why would that happen? What is the purpose of moving them? It seems quite complicated to do.

So in other words, they might have some specific knowledge of where to look and where to find things.

So in other words, they might have some specific knowledge of where to look and where to find things.

And what did the Israeli military say to you when you confronted them about the practice before you published your article?

And what did the Israeli military say to you when you confronted them about the practice before you published your article?

So they said they'd look into it.

So they said they'd look into it.

But you've shown here that they're doing it again. What happened after your story published?

But you've shown here that they're doing it again. What happened after your story published?

Natan, I'm curious about those Israeli soldiers that you talked to and how they saw this practice. I mean, fundamentally, it was something that was meant to protect them, of course, but clearly some of them must have felt uncomfortable with it because they were talking to you, a journalist, about it.

Natan, I'm curious about those Israeli soldiers that you talked to and how they saw this practice. I mean, fundamentally, it was something that was meant to protect them, of course, but clearly some of them must have felt uncomfortable with it because they were talking to you, a journalist, about it.

Natan, at a high level, it seems like what your reporting shows, and correct me if I'm wrong here, is that the Israeli military, like Hamas, is willing to sacrifice Palestinian civilians for their own military purposes. Israel, of course, accuses Hamas of hiding within civilian populations, essentially using Palestinians as human shields in Gaza.

Natan, at a high level, it seems like what your reporting shows, and correct me if I'm wrong here, is that the Israeli military, like Hamas, is willing to sacrifice Palestinian civilians for their own military purposes. Israel, of course, accuses Hamas of hiding within civilian populations, essentially using Palestinians as human shields in Gaza.

And now we know that Israel is also using Palestinians as human shields. So I'm wondering if you think think that the correct way to understand your reporting here is actually a sort of shared disregard, both on the part of the Israeli military and Hamas, for Palestinian civilian life?

And now we know that Israel is also using Palestinians as human shields. So I'm wondering if you think think that the correct way to understand your reporting here is actually a sort of shared disregard, both on the part of the Israeli military and Hamas, for Palestinian civilian life?

In other words, there's an emotional response that's happening on the part of Israelis and Israeli citizens who, of course, are also Israeli soldiers. And that is clouding, in some ways, judgment and allowing them or perhaps kind of inviting them to see Palestinians in this dehumanized way.

In other words, there's an emotional response that's happening on the part of Israelis and Israeli citizens who, of course, are also Israeli soldiers. And that is clouding, in some ways, judgment and allowing them or perhaps kind of inviting them to see Palestinians in this dehumanized way.