Saikat Chakrabarti

They would probably say it was substantive. I don't think I'm going to say it wasn't, but it was more the latter, right? Like it was more that we weren't operating in the idea space that everyone else was operating in. But I'd say, you know, in general, like the pipeline example you brought up is a really interesting one, right?

They would probably say it was substantive. I don't think I'm going to say it wasn't, but it was more the latter, right? Like it was more that we weren't operating in the idea space that everyone else was operating in. But I'd say, you know, in general, like the pipeline example you brought up is a really interesting one, right?

Because I think when you abdicate responsibility from actually pushing for new ideas and solutions, what you're saying is the interest groups, which I think often, as you're pointing out, Zephyr, are the big corporate interests, they're going to fight it out. So in the case of the pipelines you're talking about, I'm sure there's interest groups on both sides.

Because I think when you abdicate responsibility from actually pushing for new ideas and solutions, what you're saying is the interest groups, which I think often, as you're pointing out, Zephyr, are the big corporate interests, they're going to fight it out. So in the case of the pipelines you're talking about, I'm sure there's interest groups on both sides.

So 20 years later, we'll come to some resolution. But in the case of natural gas pipelines, we streamlined all that, right? We put permitting under FERC. We made it happen super fast. We have 3 million miles of natural gas pipelines in this country right now. We built it super fast because there wasn't really a big enough opposing interest group.

So 20 years later, we'll come to some resolution. But in the case of natural gas pipelines, we streamlined all that, right? We put permitting under FERC. We made it happen super fast. We have 3 million miles of natural gas pipelines in this country right now. We built it super fast because there wasn't really a big enough opposing interest group.

And so that's sort of what I see happening in the Democratic Party is there's a real resistance to putting out actual solutions and putting out real ways to solve these problems and just deciding that we're going to take ideas from everyone. And I agree with Zephyr that that tends to be the corporate powers that have more influence there.

And so that's sort of what I see happening in the Democratic Party is there's a real resistance to putting out actual solutions and putting out real ways to solve these problems and just deciding that we're going to take ideas from everyone. And I agree with Zephyr that that tends to be the corporate powers that have more influence there.

It's a major problem. It's a major problem. And that's why, you know, as you get into lower levels of government, lobbyist capture is even higher. Like in California state governments, worse than it is in Congress because they have even less funding. What people actually want is not what Doge is doing. They want effective government.

It's a major problem. It's a major problem. And that's why, you know, as you get into lower levels of government, lobbyist capture is even higher. Like in California state governments, worse than it is in Congress because they have even less funding. What people actually want is not what Doge is doing. They want effective government.

And effective government happens if you have either a very well-paid civil service, as they do in Singapore or Finland or any of these countries that have effective government. But in America, the tough part of that is you're competing against Google salaries and all these high-paid salaries.

And effective government happens if you have either a very well-paid civil service, as they do in Singapore or Finland or any of these countries that have effective government. But in America, the tough part of that is you're competing against Google salaries and all these high-paid salaries.

And so I think one way you do that is, hey, you do need to increase the salaries, you need to fund this stuff, but you also have to make it exciting. I think it's very radicalized. It's very underreported. It's because they're going in there and they're making a real sacrifice.

And so I think one way you do that is, hey, you do need to increase the salaries, you need to fund this stuff, but you also have to make it exciting. I think it's very radicalized. It's very underreported. It's because they're going in there and they're making a real sacrifice.

All these people could be making, you know, half a million dollars in a lobbyist firm, but instead they're taking a huge pay cut to do something good. One of the things I learned when I was in Congress was if you're a former member of Congress, you can be on the House floor. So what do lobbyists do? They hire former members of Congress so they can whip votes on the House floor.

All these people could be making, you know, half a million dollars in a lobbyist firm, but instead they're taking a huge pay cut to do something good. One of the things I learned when I was in Congress was if you're a former member of Congress, you can be on the House floor. So what do lobbyists do? They hire former members of Congress so they can whip votes on the House floor.

They're not supposed to. It's technically against the rules, but, you know, come on. How do you think about this question of state capacity?

They're not supposed to. It's technically against the rules, but, you know, come on. How do you think about this question of state capacity?

Yeah, and that's a really important point because if we actually embark on these big missions and make it exciting enough to be in government, we don't want to just be anti-people who know how to do stuff. Like when we did the World War II mobilization, The guy who ran a big part of it was this guy, Bill Knudson, who was actually the CEO of GM.

Yeah, and that's a really important point because if we actually embark on these big missions and make it exciting enough to be in government, we don't want to just be anti-people who know how to do stuff. Like when we did the World War II mobilization, The guy who ran a big part of it was this guy, Bill Knudson, who was actually the CEO of GM.