Salim Ismail

The blossoming of entrepreneurship.

That's right.

And by the way, where do you see the 80% being lost?

At all of the levels or mostly the middle level?

Upward mobility.

Back to the apprentice.

Just to clarify this, when we say how do you get there, how do you go from a classic organization to retooling yourself as an EXO level three here?

We wrote about this.

The classic was Steve Jobs starting the Mac, or IBM creating their PC, or Lockheed with their Skunkworks.

That's right.

It's the human ego and the final result protecting themselves from disruption.

Just trust me.

You can try it the other way.

And by the way, I tried in a, I'm not going to say which of my companies, a 100-person organization, right, where I'm...

Very much.

I'm a compelling individual, and I still could not get it, and so I literally had to start it as a separate organization.

You do.

Yeah, and I've done that now multiple times.

I want to say one other thing.

If you're going to try and do this on the edge, ultimately the edge organization needs to report into the CEO at the very top.