Sam Brigger

At one point, he was an arms dealer.

Your father would have periods of life with him where they would be living the high life and then other times when they had to hide from creditors.

And your father seems to have wrestled with this relationship his whole life.

Like my favorite chapter of his memoir, The Pigeon Tunnel.

It's all about his father and his novel, A Perfect Spy, considered one of his best, is also a way where he's wrestling with his dad.

He died when you were very young.

Do you know if you ever met him?

And your dad was at times recruited to work for him.

So that was just to further future crimes?

When we left off, we were talking about his father's childhood as the son of a con man.

Let's listen to a clip where Le Carre is talking about his father from the 2023 documentary The Pigeon Tunnel by Errol Morris.

The other voice you'll hear is Errol Morris.

So you felt like a dupe?

So that's John le Carré from the documentary based on his memoir, The Pigeon Tunnel.

And Nick, in the memoir, your father goes on to explain that learning how to be a liar...

That watching his father's cons, like he thinks that that set him up for his two main careers, being a spy and being a writer.

Because he says at one point, I'm a liar, born to lying, bred to it, trained to it by an industry that lies for a living, practiced in it as a novelist.

I was wondering what you thought of that idea.

And so do you see that...

that sort of extends to you that like your ability as a writer is due in part to like this lineage that goes back to your grandfather?