Sam Brigger

He died when you were very young.

Do you know if you ever met him?

And your dad was at times recruited to work for him.

So that was just to further future crimes?

When we left off, we were talking about his father's childhood as the son of a con man.

Let's listen to a clip where Le Carre is talking about his father from the 2023 documentary The Pigeon Tunnel by Errol Morris.

The other voice you'll hear is Errol Morris.

So you felt like a dupe?

So that's John le Carré from the documentary based on his memoir, The Pigeon Tunnel.

And Nick, in the memoir, your father goes on to explain that learning how to be a liar...

That watching his father's cons, like he thinks that that set him up for his two main careers, being a spy and being a writer.

Because he says at one point, I'm a liar, born to lying, bred to it, trained to it by an industry that lies for a living, practiced in it as a novelist.

I was wondering what you thought of that idea.

And so do you see that...

that sort of extends to you that like your ability as a writer is due in part to like this lineage that goes back to your grandfather?

Would you practice those stories as a kid?

Because if you knew you were going to have to tell a story, would you perform them in your mind to get them right?

So you went to boarding school as well?

But were you taught to lie there as well?

Wow, that's remarkable.