Sam Harris

And I can recognize that many people in our society

are on balance the victims of immigration.

And there is, in many cases, a zero-sum contest between the interests of actual citizens and the interests of immigrants, right?

So I think we should have control of our borders.

We should have a sane and compassionate immigration policy.

We should let in refugees, right?

So, you know, Trump on refugees was terrible.

But

No, I would say 80% of the policy concerns people celebrated in him are concerns that I either share entirely or certainly sympathize with.

So that's not the issue.

The issue is...

The issue is largely what you said it was.

It's not so much the person, it's the effect on everything he touches.

He has this superpower of deranging and destabilizing

almost everything he touches and sullying and compromising the integrity of almost anyone who comes into his orbit.

I mean, so you looked at these people who served, you know, as chief of staff or, you know, in various cabinet positions, people who had real reputations, you know, for, for probity and, and level-headedness, uh, you know, whether you share their politics or not.

I mean, these were real people.

These were not, you know, some of them were goofballs, but, um, uh,

you know, many people who just got totally trashed by proximity to him and then trashed by him when they finally parted company with him.

Yeah, I mean, there's just people bent over backwards to accommodate his norm violations.