Sam Harris

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I am here with Jonah Goldberg.

Jonah, thanks for joining me again.

Hey, it's great to be back.

It's great to see you.

So I think it's been about six months since you were on the podcast and a few things have happened.

I think I looked at it, it was somewhere around August of last year.

I have a list of things that I think we could profitably discuss, but what's most concerning you these days?

Where's your head been on our political landscape?

I want to talk about a few things you mentioned there, the midterms and even a possible invasion or otherwise attack on Iran.

But this point you're raising now, just how the degree which our institutions have been vitiated by Trump loyalists and people who

We know more or less to a man and woman now are not disposed to follow the norms that we really have every right to expect our institutions would enshrine.

This raises the question, which several people have asked of late, which is in a perfect world, we'll say we get a completely sane president in 2028.

How do we reboot the system?

Because it seems that any wholesale change in staffing is going to be perceived, at least by a large minority on the right, as just yet more purely partisan tribalism.

I mean, it can be viewed in the most cynical way as exactly analogous to what Trump did when he came into office and staffed it all with his loyalists in the first place.

How do we, with the best of intentions, perform a reset back to something like normal that gets perceived for what it is rather than just this pendulum swing into the antithetical style or antithetical pole of hyper-partisanship?

And so... Do you think the virtuous cycle is just as strong that once you have some sanity come over one party, it's going to drag the other party back to the normal?

I do think it encourages it.

Is this truly a symmetrical problem on both sides?