Sam Parr

And it was doing well.

But Joe reinvented himself.

So at this event, he gave a talk that just like brought the house down.

It was unbelievable.

Literally like...

You had 30 people chanting USA, USA at the end because he told the story of his meeting with Trump where he ends up becoming the chief design officer for America, which wasn't even a role before Joe got there and how he wanted to serve and he wanted to use his superpower, which is design and creating this delightful user experience, but bring it to an area which had been like zero care about user experience, which is like...

you know, government paperwork, government websites, you know, things that literally look like the first version that was made in 1986.

And, you know, actually like taking the time and care to like up those experiences.

You know, a very simple example was the

And people – this has been talked about publicly, so I can talk about this.

To retire from the government, the paperwork was kept in the mine, like an actual physical mine, and it was paperwork.

And that's what made sense in the 60s because that's all we had was paperwork.

Exactly.

So like, let's say you've served, you know, 30 years, you're ready to retire.

And now you go through this sort of brutal six to 12 month paperwork process to retire.

And like, look, nobody's ever, that's never going to be a top priority for anyone to go fix.

So you just have these like tragedy of the commons type problems where it's nobody wins political points for fixing these.

Nobody makes any money.

Nobody enriches themselves by fixing these things.

And therefore they just never get fixed.