Sarah Paine

And it's a really crucial location before satellite imagery is available to put listening posts online.

on Russia.

Russia's huge.

You've got to have a bunch of listening posts to track their missiles and things.

And then if you want access to Afghanistan, which when the Russians go there, we want access.

And of course, when we go there, we really want access.

So it's a strategic location.

For the Pakistanis, the United States was so frustrating to deal with because we'd be on and off interested in them because we don't align on a primary enemy.

So

Pre-satellite imagery, we really wanted to cozy up the Pakistanis so we could have U2 bases, but then technology changes.

And before we get facilities in Iran, we want this listening post in Badabair, but technology will eventually change.

And then for a while, we truly want the Pakistanis to get the mail through to China,

when we're trying to break China out of diplomatic isolation and then cooperate against the Soviet Union, and Pakistan delivers the mail.

But then we set up an alternate setup in Paris to go through our embassies that way, and Pakistan is, again, irrelevant.

And then when Russia's in Afghanistan, Pakistan's essential to get aid to insurgents to cause the Russians trouble.

And then, of course, when we're in Afghanistan, we really want to

cooperate with the Pakistanis, and that works until we cap Osama bin Laden without telling the Pakistanis in their territory, Abbottabad, and then relations are really not so great.

And so it's a very bumpy ride.

And in these periods when we really need the Pakistanis, we don't pay attention to human rights or the really big one, nuclear proliferation.

And so the proliferation is pretty steady.