Sarah Wakeman

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

So, I mean, the journey of alcohol is fascinating.

So first, I think we think of this as a relatively modern thing, but, you know, archaeologists have discovered, like, beer-making equipment in hunter-gatherers' cave dwellings from 13,000 years ago.

That's wild.

Wow.

Like, 13,000 years of people figuring out how to make beer.

Yeah.

You know, you look at China 9,000 years ago.

It was really about like a spiritual journey or a social thing.

It was never really about health.

At some point, we started talking about this as something that is good for your health.

Like drink red wine.

It's going to improve your health.

And that's where I think we got wrong.

And the reason why was actually from how we were looking at the data.

So first, if you look at only one health condition, there are some health conditions where a moderate amount of alcohol actually improves your health.

But it was also how people were conducting the studies.

So in most of the studies, what people do is they take like a massive population, tens of thousands of people, where we have some data where they're reporting how much alcohol they used.

And then we look at health risks over time.