Scott Detrow

It didn't take long for President Trump's tone to change.

A day and a half after he reported positive conversations with Minnesota Governor Tim Walz and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey, the president posted on his social media site that the mayor is, quote, all caps, playing with fire.

This because Frey told Tom Homan in a Tuesday meeting the city refuses to enforce federal immigration laws.

Homan is the Trump administration's border czar, and he was sent to Minnesota to bring down the temperature to

weeks into an ICE operation that has become a national conversation and tension point and has left two American citizens dead.

Homan replaces Greg Bovino, who until Monday had been overseeing the operation.

Trump's border czar has worked for Democratic and Republican presidents and was the architect of Trump's family separation policy in his first term.

Consider this.

After the shooting of Alex Preddy, the Trump administration is making a leadership change on the ground in Minneapolis.

Will anything change?

From NPR, I'm Scott Detrow.

It's Consider This from NPR.

Can a leadership shuffle do anything to meaningfully change the situation in Minneapolis?

That is the first question we put to reporter Caitlin Dickerson of The Atlantic, who's been covering Tom Holman's career for years.

I want to zoom out and get to Holman's backstory and bio in a moment, but let's start with this.

In this moment, in this tense situation, what to you is the most meaningful difference between Greg Bovino and Tom Holman?

That's what I was curious about what you thought, because whether it's professionalization or or in some cases, people are saying it's a more moderate approach.

This is being framed as a de-escalatory move.

Do you see it that way based on what you know about Tom Holman and his background?

And that was probably, with maybe one or two exceptions, one of the policies of the first Trump administration that got the most backlash, got the most political response, really upset people across the political spectrum.