Scott Detrow

Hegseth softened his stance a bit during his confirmation hearing, and Ernst ultimately voted to confirm Hegseth. Then there's Marco Rubio and Ukraine.

Hegseth softened his stance a bit during his confirmation hearing, and Ernst ultimately voted to confirm Hegseth. Then there's Marco Rubio and Ukraine.

Hegseth softened his stance a bit during his confirmation hearing, and Ernst ultimately voted to confirm Hegseth. Then there's Marco Rubio and Ukraine.

That's Senator Marco Rubio in 2014, speaking on the Senate floor shortly after Russia invaded and annexed Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula.

That's Senator Marco Rubio in 2014, speaking on the Senate floor shortly after Russia invaded and annexed Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula.

That's Senator Marco Rubio in 2014, speaking on the Senate floor shortly after Russia invaded and annexed Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula.

In February 2022, Russia launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Days after the Russian tanks rolled across Ukraine's border, Senator Rubio defended the country on MSNBC. Fast forward three years. is now Secretary of State in the second Trump administration. And that steadfast support that Rubio had as a senator has taken a backseat to the administration's hardline approach to Ukraine.

In February 2022, Russia launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Days after the Russian tanks rolled across Ukraine's border, Senator Rubio defended the country on MSNBC. Fast forward three years. is now Secretary of State in the second Trump administration. And that steadfast support that Rubio had as a senator has taken a backseat to the administration's hardline approach to Ukraine.

In February 2022, Russia launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Days after the Russian tanks rolled across Ukraine's border, Senator Rubio defended the country on MSNBC. Fast forward three years. is now Secretary of State in the second Trump administration. And that steadfast support that Rubio had as a senator has taken a backseat to the administration's hardline approach to Ukraine.

As Senator, Marco Rubio supported America's role as a global leader. Now, as Secretary of State, he has embraced Donald Trump's America First policies. Policies that are having dire consequences for Ukraine and creating turbulence in the rest of the world. From NPR, I'm Scott Detrow. It's Consider This from NPR.

As Senator, Marco Rubio supported America's role as a global leader. Now, as Secretary of State, he has embraced Donald Trump's America First policies. Policies that are having dire consequences for Ukraine and creating turbulence in the rest of the world. From NPR, I'm Scott Detrow. It's Consider This from NPR.

As Senator, Marco Rubio supported America's role as a global leader. Now, as Secretary of State, he has embraced Donald Trump's America First policies. Policies that are having dire consequences for Ukraine and creating turbulence in the rest of the world. From NPR, I'm Scott Detrow. It's Consider This from NPR.

It has been a little more than a week since Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky met with President Donald Trump in the Oval Office. Vice President J.D. Vance was in the meeting, too, and so was Secretary of State Marco Rubio. The nation's top diplomat was sitting on an Oval Office couch...

It has been a little more than a week since Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky met with President Donald Trump in the Oval Office. Vice President J.D. Vance was in the meeting, too, and so was Secretary of State Marco Rubio. The nation's top diplomat was sitting on an Oval Office couch...

It has been a little more than a week since Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky met with President Donald Trump in the Oval Office. Vice President J.D. Vance was in the meeting, too, and so was Secretary of State Marco Rubio. The nation's top diplomat was sitting on an Oval Office couch...

Mostly silent as Trump and Vance berated the Ukrainian leader and in the process made it clear just how much of the established global order they are ready to upend. An order that for most of his career, Rubio has defended and worked to help hold up. So what changed and what do those changes mean?

Mostly silent as Trump and Vance berated the Ukrainian leader and in the process made it clear just how much of the established global order they are ready to upend. An order that for most of his career, Rubio has defended and worked to help hold up. So what changed and what do those changes mean?

Mostly silent as Trump and Vance berated the Ukrainian leader and in the process made it clear just how much of the established global order they are ready to upend. An order that for most of his career, Rubio has defended and worked to help hold up. So what changed and what do those changes mean?

To answer these questions, we're going to talk to professor of international politics at Tufts University's Fletcher School, Daniel Dresner. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Let's start by rewinding just a little bit. You wrote an opinion piece in The New York Times about Rubio's political evolution back in December before he took office.

To answer these questions, we're going to talk to professor of international politics at Tufts University's Fletcher School, Daniel Dresner. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Let's start by rewinding just a little bit. You wrote an opinion piece in The New York Times about Rubio's political evolution back in December before he took office.