Scott Detrow

I want to do the radio host thing here of pushing back on the idea I've invited you onto this program to talk about, but I'm very curious about how you think about this. Because Americans voted to return Trump to power. And there's a lot of anecdotal and broader evidence that a lot of voters hear conversations like the one that we're having right now as white noise.

This is alarmist worries from elites and magazines and national news outlets. And they either don't believe these warnings or they don't care. How have you thought about this since the election? And what do you think about that dynamic that seems to really be playing out?

This is alarmist worries from elites and magazines and national news outlets. And they either don't believe these warnings or they don't care. How have you thought about this since the election? And what do you think about that dynamic that seems to really be playing out?

This is alarmist worries from elites and magazines and national news outlets. And they either don't believe these warnings or they don't care. How have you thought about this since the election? And what do you think about that dynamic that seems to really be playing out?

I think a theme across all of the close analysis of what has happened to countries that have slid into authoritarianism in the past is that a lot of the times the power is willingly given over.

I think a theme across all of the close analysis of what has happened to countries that have slid into authoritarianism in the past is that a lot of the times the power is willingly given over.

I think a theme across all of the close analysis of what has happened to countries that have slid into authoritarianism in the past is that a lot of the times the power is willingly given over.

And when you look across the country right now, whether it's large corporate-owned media settling lawsuits or big corporations suddenly changing their policies and their political actions or nonprofits stripping words from their websites right now,

And when you look across the country right now, whether it's large corporate-owned media settling lawsuits or big corporations suddenly changing their policies and their political actions or nonprofits stripping words from their websites right now,

And when you look across the country right now, whether it's large corporate-owned media settling lawsuits or big corporations suddenly changing their policies and their political actions or nonprofits stripping words from their websites right now,

What do you think is so different from the first time Trump has office to right now that statements he made the first time around kind of went in and out of a lot of these actors' ears? And this time they're stopping what they are doing. They are recalculating. They are making changes to be on the right side of Donald Trump policies.

What do you think is so different from the first time Trump has office to right now that statements he made the first time around kind of went in and out of a lot of these actors' ears? And this time they're stopping what they are doing. They are recalculating. They are making changes to be on the right side of Donald Trump policies.

What do you think is so different from the first time Trump has office to right now that statements he made the first time around kind of went in and out of a lot of these actors' ears? And this time they're stopping what they are doing. They are recalculating. They are making changes to be on the right side of Donald Trump policies.

You know, in many different ways, though, all presidents push for and grab power, right? I'm thinking of one of the examples that we've seen in the last few weeks, Trump's takeover of the Kennedy Center board, appointing himself chair of the board. A lot of other examples to pick from, but I'm going with that one because the Kennedy Center put out a statement saying,

You know, in many different ways, though, all presidents push for and grab power, right? I'm thinking of one of the examples that we've seen in the last few weeks, Trump's takeover of the Kennedy Center board, appointing himself chair of the board. A lot of other examples to pick from, but I'm going with that one because the Kennedy Center put out a statement saying,

You know, in many different ways, though, all presidents push for and grab power, right? I'm thinking of one of the examples that we've seen in the last few weeks, Trump's takeover of the Kennedy Center board, appointing himself chair of the board. A lot of other examples to pick from, but I'm going with that one because the Kennedy Center put out a statement saying,

This is a little bit of a paraphrase, but they said, presidents have always had the power to change our board. They just haven't exercised it. So if Trump had that power and chose to use that, again, isn't that the push and pull of democracy?

This is a little bit of a paraphrase, but they said, presidents have always had the power to change our board. They just haven't exercised it. So if Trump had that power and chose to use that, again, isn't that the push and pull of democracy?

This is a little bit of a paraphrase, but they said, presidents have always had the power to change our board. They just haven't exercised it. So if Trump had that power and chose to use that, again, isn't that the push and pull of democracy?

Em Gessen is an opinion columnist at The New York Times and the author of The Future is History, How Totalitarianism Reclaimed Russia. Thanks so much for talking to us.