Sen. Chris Murphy

Well, that's a good question to start with.

I guess I haven't really thought about it.

I think corruption is still a word that resonates.

I think people understand that corruption is a bad thing, that it is something that we have broadly tried to expunge from our politics.

And I do think that people generally understand corruption, though,

to be something that happens quietly behind closed doors.

Corruption is something you try to hide.

And so I do think the most important piece of this moment in some ways is trying to understand what to do with the brazen public way that Trump is engaging in corruption, because simply by the very fact that he does it every day, that he does it openly, publicly, and proudly,

It is causing some people to question, wait, wait, is this corruption?

Because this isn't what I learned corruption is.

There's no shame in this, and generally there's supposed to be shame in corruption.

But I don't necessarily know it means you change the word.

I guess as I'm literally just thinking out loud, if you change the word, you're kind of –

ceding to his terms, right?

He's trying to change the very notion of corruption by doing it publicly.

And so if you call it something different, then I think you're probably playing his game.

Yeah, it's just so nakedly transactional right now.

And it's just a really easy story to explain, you know, whether it's the donations that Boeing made that got them out of their trouble, whether it's the Toyota donations, whether it's the money that Zell pumped into the administration.

You know, it now doesn't happen through slowly...

putting money into the political system, slowly building up connections.