Shamita Basu

This is In Conversation from Apple News.

I'm Shamita Basu.

Today, how RFK Jr.

became the most powerful man in public health.

Earlier this year, journalist Michael Shearer set out to profile health secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and Kennedy agreed to sit down with him.

Michael first wrote about Kennedy back in 2023 when he was at The Washington Post.

Kennedy had taken issue with some parts of that coverage, but the two stayed in touch.

And for this new story for The Atlantic, Kennedy granted Michael a remarkable level of access.

Michael's piece is out now.

It explores how Kennedy's background — the privilege, the trauma, the years of addiction and recovery —

shaped the worldview he brings to his role at HHS and what that means for federal public health policy, including rollbacks to the CDC's longstanding guidance on childhood immunization and generally shifting American attitudes toward vaccines.

Michael told me that to understand the choices Kennedy is making today, you have to start with the story of how he became who he is.

Well, let's get into some of that background.

I mean, you write about this just a bit in the piece.

As you said, it feels like incomplete to tell the story without touching on some of that.

But how old was he exactly when his uncle was shot first?

Yeah, he was 15.

Yeah.

And what was the turning point for him in saying that he wanted to make a change?

How does he talk about that period in his life and his turning point of seeking help and being in recovery?