Shankar Vedantam

And in some ways, it complicates the notion of how we think about people, right?

We think about smart people as always being smart, dull people always being dull.

And what you're doing partly with sort of this 2E label is basically saying, no, people are more complicated than that.

So the story that has stuck with me, I think, through this whole episode is the one that you told me about the school psychologist who looked at your IQ test and showed you where you fell on the bell curve of intelligence and started with the gifted and moved the pencil over and over and over to the left and then to the left and then more to the left.

That moment was really crushing for you in all kinds of ways.

But some years ago, you had an extraordinary experience.

You were walking in a park in Philadelphia, and you came by an elderly man sitting on a park bench.

Set the scene for me and tell me that story, Scott.

Psychologist Scott Barry Kaufman studies the science of human potential.

He's the author of Rise Above, Overcome a Victim Mindset, Empower Yourself, and Realize Your Full Potential.

Scott, thank you so much for joining me today on Hidden Brain.

Do you have a follow-up question for Scott Barry Kaufman or a story related to this episode?

If you'd be willing to share your question or story with a Hidden Brain audience, please find a very quiet room and record a voice memo on your phone.

Two or three minutes is plenty.

Then email the file to us at feedback at hiddenbrain.org.

Use the subject line intelligence.

That email address again, feedback at hiddenbrain.org.

After the break, what do couples who've been happily married for 40, 50, or 60 years know that the rest of us don't?

Listeners share how they make their relationships work, and psychologist James Cordova returns to the show in our latest installment of Your Questions Answered.

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