Shankar Vedantam

Some people might listen to this and say, okay, John Rottenberg thinks that the enterprise of treating depression with psychotherapy or medications is flawed.

They should be discarded.

That is not what you are saying, right, John?

I understand, John, that a few years ago you reached out to one of the psychiatrists who treated you when you were depressed.

Why did you reach out and how did the conversation unfold?

In our companion story to this episode, available exclusively to subscribers to Hidden Brain+, we explore John's ideas about how it's possible to live a good life, even to flourish, if you or someone you know has depression.

If you're a subscriber, that episode is available right now.

It's titled Flourishing After Depression.

If you're not yet a subscriber, please visit support.hiddenbrain.org.

If you're using an Apple device, go to apple.co slash hiddenbrain.

You can get a free seven day trial in both places.

You'll instantly have access to all our subscriber only content, including past episodes.

Again, that's support.hiddenbrain.org or apple.co slash hiddenbrain.

John Rottenberg is a psychologist at Cornell University.

He's the author of The Depths, The Evolutionary Origins of the Depression Epidemic.

John, thank you so much for joining me today on Hidden Brain.

If you have a personal story about your own battles with your moods or follow up questions or comments that you would be willing to share with the Hidden Brain audience, please find a very quiet room and record a voice memo on your phone.

Two or three minutes is plenty.

Email the file to us at feedback at hiddenbrain.org.

Use the subject line depression.