Sheldon Johnson

Where they realize, like, there's a path out of this.

Because if you don't see a path out of this, you just see a path towards doing what the other people in your environment are doing.

And that's how all human beings react.

If you're in a bad environment with a bad group of human beings, the chances of you going down that same path are extraordinary.

In our behavior.

Yes.

And from someone like you, they can see this is not a given.

There's a way to do this.

There's a way to get out of this.

And there's a guy who's already gone the wrong way who could say, you know what?

I figured it out and I'm going to help you.

The difference between someone like you saying it versus some uninspired counselor is massive.

It's massive.

It speaks to you and your character that you want to do this, that you've dedicated yourself to doing this.

That's where real change comes from.

That's where real help comes from.

Real help comes from someone, as you said, who's qualified to do it.

But then there's the issue of privatized prisons, which is insane.

That's disturbing.

It's so disturbing.