Simon Foy

And that sort of business is a lot less risky and a lot less...

capital intensive than some investment banking activities.

And as you have a lot of fiscal stimulus in Europe and in Germany at the moment, as governments look to build infrastructure, invest more in defense.

So Deutsche is really trying to get in on that and is hoping it will be able to capitalize on that.

I think there were a few things that still rear the head sort of from the bad days for Deutsche when it was deemed to be the sick bank of Europe, where the recently released Epstein files, sort of Epstein was a big Deutsche client for a while.

So there are still some reputational issues that are ongoing.

But I think people within the bank hope they are largely safe.

past that and that this new strategy will bear fruit.

But if you look at the targets they're setting, so the profitability targets are still quite a bit weaker than some other European peers.

There are other banks like Unicredit in Italy or Santander in Spain who are much more profitable and they are expanding and sort of pursuing bigger deals.

So we will see.

I think the consensus is that they will probably likely hit these targets by 2028, but that would still, I suppose, keep them in the middle of the pack of European banks.

Thanks, Mark.