Simon Harris

to really try and build up energy security and energy resilience.

Because I know what's going to happen.

We're going to have a conversation this winter, and I'm up for it, about how do we help people in the here and now with the bills.

That's fine.

That's an important thing to do.

People need help now.

But actually, the bigger conversation that politicians need to have is, how do we get off this horrific cycle of being so dependent on fossil fuels from abroad?

And that means we're at the mercy of people who are making decisions thousands upon thousands of kilometres from here.

So there's an economic security issue here as well.

No, I don't believe so.

I mean, we've seen, we've made changes in the last number of weeks and we've seen a huge surge in applications, I think 29,000 applications already for home adaptations.

What I'm making the point is that this can't be the final word.

And I'm making a broader point.

I'm making the point that politics can't just become a reductive conversation around a fiver here or a tenner there.

It has to be bigger than that.

We have to actually take energy security much more seriously, not just in Ireland, but in the European Union too.

We are far too reliant on other parts of the world.

So we're not doing the budget today.

But what I do accept now is this, that if the energy crisis is continuing into the winter, it's going to be vastly more difficult for people than it is in the summer.

I mean, today, and again, not being flippant, but today is a bright, sunny day as I came in here.