Simon Kuper

It's something I'm getting used to, yes. I just dived into corruption when I began researching this book. I was astounded how much there was that everybody just seems to live with. And now I talk about it.

It's something I'm getting used to, yes. I just dived into corruption when I began researching this book. I was astounded how much there was that everybody just seems to live with. And now I talk about it.

Sleaze is a British euphemism because British people don't want to say that there's corruption in Britain because corruption obviously only you have in Brazil or Russia and bad countries. In Britain, we can't have that. So sleaze is a way of making it sound sort of titillating, tabloid headlines. Corruption is, I'm using the World Bank definition, abuse of public office for private gain.

Sleaze is a British euphemism because British people don't want to say that there's corruption in Britain because corruption obviously only you have in Brazil or Russia and bad countries. In Britain, we can't have that. So sleaze is a way of making it sound sort of titillating, tabloid headlines. Corruption is, I'm using the World Bank definition, abuse of public office for private gain.

So if you're an MP or a civil servant or you could be a doctor or a police officer, you'd use that office to make money for yourself. And that can be completely legal. So we have ex-prime ministers who go off and work for Saudi Arabia, Kazakhstan, try and go into business with China, etc. It's legal, but they're still monetizing their office. So to me, that's corrupt.

So if you're an MP or a civil servant or you could be a doctor or a police officer, you'd use that office to make money for yourself. And that can be completely legal. So we have ex-prime ministers who go off and work for Saudi Arabia, Kazakhstan, try and go into business with China, etc. It's legal, but they're still monetizing their office. So to me, that's corrupt.

I think it's incredibly stupid. That would be my sense. It is a form of corruption in that, you know, because you have office, you're leader of the opposition, you get some free clothes. But it's not such a big deal. I mean, he could have bought the clothes. He could have paid Arsenal for the box.

I think it's incredibly stupid. That would be my sense. It is a form of corruption in that, you know, because you have office, you're leader of the opposition, you get some free clothes. But it's not such a big deal. I mean, he could have bought the clothes. He could have paid Arsenal for the box.

And so instead of drawing a sharp contrast between a conservative government where there were terrible cases of corruption, most of all the COVID VIP lane, then you could come in and say, we don't do that. And somebody wants to give you free clothes. And you say, no, we don't accept free clothes. I'd like them, but can't do it.

And so instead of drawing a sharp contrast between a conservative government where there were terrible cases of corruption, most of all the COVID VIP lane, then you could come in and say, we don't do that. And somebody wants to give you free clothes. And you say, no, we don't accept free clothes. I'd like them, but can't do it.

It would just have been so easy and it's incredibly stupid to have lost that moral lead and to have set a tone that people are going to remember for years.

It would just have been so easy and it's incredibly stupid to have lost that moral lead and to have set a tone that people are going to remember for years.

Pretty much, yeah. That's the British system. You phrase it very well. Anything goes as long as you declare it. That sounds like The Purge. Yeah. You know, this phrase that transparency is the best disinfectant, which is nonsense because you'd be completely transparent. You took a donation from some crook. You put it on the register. You hope that nobody will check it.

Pretty much, yeah. That's the British system. You phrase it very well. Anything goes as long as you declare it. That sounds like The Purge. Yeah. You know, this phrase that transparency is the best disinfectant, which is nonsense because you'd be completely transparent. You took a donation from some crook. You put it on the register. You hope that nobody will check it.

You know, there's fewer and fewer sort of local journalists if you're an MP in the Northeast, say, who will go through that. So mostly anything goes as long as you can declare it is right. And they didn't even declare some of this, which is also odd. Right.

You know, there's fewer and fewer sort of local journalists if you're an MP in the Northeast, say, who will go through that. So mostly anything goes as long as you can declare it is right. And they didn't even declare some of this, which is also odd. Right.

I think he has a point that when I was researching corruption under the conservatives, there was so much of it that each scandal would displace the next one. So Sunak got helicopter rides from a donor who later got into legal problems. And, you know, this lives and dies a couple of days in the newspaper. And then there's some other terrible scandal.

I think he has a point that when I was researching corruption under the conservatives, there was so much of it that each scandal would displace the next one. So Sunak got helicopter rides from a donor who later got into legal problems. And, you know, this lives and dies a couple of days in the newspaper. And then there's some other terrible scandal.

Boris Johnson goes and meets the Venezuelan dictator paid by a hedge fund manager. So the main Tory donor, Frank Hester, who I think is the largest donor to any political party in the history of British policies, gave the Conservatives about 15 million, comes out that he said the terribly racist and misogynistic things about Diane Abbott, Labour MP.

Boris Johnson goes and meets the Venezuelan dictator paid by a hedge fund manager. So the main Tory donor, Frank Hester, who I think is the largest donor to any political party in the history of British policies, gave the Conservatives about 15 million, comes out that he said the terribly racist and misogynistic things about Diane Abbott, Labour MP.