Sohrab Ahmari

No, I agree with that, and I worry about that. Listen, you said something, and I think Adam agreed, that fundamentally the New Deal order was a conservative project because it was an attempt to bring the turbulent market and all the disruption it can bring under some degree of political control, strike a different bargain between the asset-less majority and the asset-rich few.

As Roosevelt himself said, if you would preserve reform, meaning if you don't want a revolutionary scenario, give in to reform. So I think my hope in the long term to try to think dialectically is if these guys want to return to the power relations that prevailed in the 1890s, let's say, then what you're going to have potentially is the kind of labor industrial relations that you had in the 1890.

As Roosevelt himself said, if you would preserve reform, meaning if you don't want a revolutionary scenario, give in to reform. So I think my hope in the long term to try to think dialectically is if these guys want to return to the power relations that prevailed in the 1890s, let's say, then what you're going to have potentially is the kind of labor industrial relations that you had in the 1890.

Adam already hinted at this as well. You had mass strikes. You had violent uprisings at factories and mines and so on and railroads. Is it possible that we're heading into several decades where we're going to see things like that between, for example, masses of people who've become kind of turned into not even a proletariat but a lumpenproletariat as a result of automation being ruthlessly

Adam already hinted at this as well. You had mass strikes. You had violent uprisings at factories and mines and so on and railroads. Is it possible that we're heading into several decades where we're going to see things like that between, for example, masses of people who've become kind of turned into not even a proletariat but a lumpenproletariat as a result of automation being ruthlessly

push through without political pushback? And is it possible that down the road that will lead to some new labor settlement, some new, whatever the true new deal of the 21st century might be? But as much as possible, I'd like to personally, I'd like to avoid upheaval, right? I don't want to live through the early 20th century.

push through without political pushback? And is it possible that down the road that will lead to some new labor settlement, some new, whatever the true new deal of the 21st century might be? But as much as possible, I'd like to personally, I'd like to avoid upheaval, right? I don't want to live through the early 20th century.

No, I share your alarm at what the sort of techno billionaires are up to. And I'm about as pessimistic as you put it. And what I put my hope in is democracy and democracy, not just as going to the- I've got some bad news, Sora. No, no, not just going to the ballot. Democracy, not as just going to the ballot box every few years, but the idea that

No, I share your alarm at what the sort of techno billionaires are up to. And I'm about as pessimistic as you put it. And what I put my hope in is democracy and democracy, not just as going to the- I've got some bad news, Sora. No, no, not just going to the ballot. Democracy, not as just going to the ballot box every few years, but the idea that

technology, economy, all these things are not, they shouldn't just be sort of left to their own devices and we say, well, inevitably it's gonna lead us in this or that direction, but no, people should have political input in how AI is rolled out, how it affects labor markets, how, you know, the shape that the market takes and so on.

technology, economy, all these things are not, they shouldn't just be sort of left to their own devices and we say, well, inevitably it's gonna lead us in this or that direction, but no, people should have political input in how AI is rolled out, how it affects labor markets, how, you know, the shape that the market takes and so on.

Right. That's what I'm saying is, is there going to be, I think, just logically speaking, there's going to be pushback. And again, the only question is, is it, you know, ferocious upheaval of the kind that I think none of us would like, or will there a kind of wisdom reign like it did in the 1930s when elites

Right. That's what I'm saying is, is there going to be, I think, just logically speaking, there's going to be pushback. And again, the only question is, is it, you know, ferocious upheaval of the kind that I think none of us would like, or will there a kind of wisdom reign like it did in the 1930s when elites

came to realize that for the sake of social order, they need to give more, bottom line, to give more and not just fuck one way. That's my hope.

came to realize that for the sake of social order, they need to give more, bottom line, to give more and not just fuck one way. That's my hope.