Sonia Shah

Like people find a way to go around.

And a lot of times people will take more dangerous routes.

So like Zeke was saying, we don't have a system.

We really don't have a system for moving people around the planet in a safe, orderly and dignified fashion.

We could create that if we wanted to and things would be quite different, but.

That's not what we have.

So we you know, the system we have now is about, well, let's make sure people don't move or don't move too much or don't not these people that these people don't move.

Right.

So all of these barriers we erect actually can make migration far more dangerous.

But I think what we'll see in the longer picture is, you know, in the past, we've seen big movements that are going east to west.

Generally, human populations have been flowing that way.

But if we were to sync up with climate change, we would start seeing more South to North movements.

That is what we're seeing in other species.

Humans are animals like other species.

So, you know, I expect over time that that's what's going to be happening in the kind of bigger picture for human migration too.

I mean, I think we all are migrants in some way, except for very, very few of us who are still in parts of Africa and have stayed there since the dawn of humanity.

Even when we first walked out of Africa, actually, we walked into Europe and Asia and North America.

There already were other humans there, other human species that are now extinct.

So even that was a migration.

That wasn't just we populated the empty earth.