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policy expert that comes with great background, not only in the true government arena, but also she was involved with health partners here in the state of Minnesota, Alina Health. She was the CEO of the Courage Center here in the Twin City area. So, wow. Wow. Great, great career, great career. And recently retired, and I see a smile. So that's great.

So Jan, thank you so much for being part of Health Chatter. And really, this is a chat. And we're going to be focusing on the concept of leadership. And it's probably easier, I'm hoping it's easier, to reflect on it than to talk about it when you're in the midst of it, okay? If you get my drift. I do. You understand. So, all right. So, let's start out this way. Health leadership overall.

So Jan, thank you so much for being part of Health Chatter. And really, this is a chat. And we're going to be focusing on the concept of leadership. And it's probably easier, I'm hoping it's easier, to reflect on it than to talk about it when you're in the midst of it, okay? If you get my drift. I do. You understand. So, all right. So, let's start out this way. Health leadership overall.

So, you know, with all the different things that you've been involved with, give us your perspective on it. What, as, you know, as somebody who's led a lot of different things, but Truly, what is your perspective on leadership and health from all the different things you've been involved with?

So, you know, with all the different things that you've been involved with, give us your perspective on it. What, as, you know, as somebody who's led a lot of different things, but Truly, what is your perspective on leadership and health from all the different things you've been involved with?

I'll tell you, when you said authenticity, that really rings a bell. It really, really does. You really have to embrace that in order for you to move ahead properly in the healthcare field. I will tell you this now. I'll let Clarence chime in. I saw you speak many, many times in many, many different situations.

I'll tell you, when you said authenticity, that really rings a bell. It really, really does. You really have to embrace that in order for you to move ahead properly in the healthcare field. I will tell you this now. I'll let Clarence chime in. I saw you speak many, many times in many, many different situations.

And it always struck me, you as a leader, I always had this sense that you were listening ever so carefully, even in an open forum, listening ever so carefully. And getting that sense of appreciating the other point of view, which I think is an incredible leadership attribute. You don't have to agree with it.

And it always struck me, you as a leader, I always had this sense that you were listening ever so carefully, even in an open forum, listening ever so carefully. And getting that sense of appreciating the other point of view, which I think is an incredible leadership attribute. You don't have to agree with it.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

but you can appreciate at least their perspective. And then hopefully from that go forward. The one thing I can say is that I don't care what side of the aisle you're on or whether or not you agree or you disagree with people. The bottom line is we all want to be healthy. And so that's something that we all carry. Clarence, go ahead.

but you can appreciate at least their perspective. And then hopefully from that go forward. The one thing I can say is that I don't care what side of the aisle you're on or whether or not you agree or you disagree with people. The bottom line is we all want to be healthy. And so that's something that we all carry. Clarence, go ahead.

Thank you. No, it's interesting. During COVID, you know, I'll be honest, I was considering, you know, retiring before that hit. And then when it hit, you know, as a public health professional, and by the way, I can probably say that this is true for a lot of people, certainly at the health department. they put off retiring or they put off this or that so that they knew that they could help.

Thank you. No, it's interesting. During COVID, you know, I'll be honest, I was considering, you know, retiring before that hit. And then when it hit, you know, as a public health professional, and by the way, I can probably say that this is true for a lot of people, certainly at the health department. they put off retiring or they put off this or that so that they knew that they could help.

Because that's what it was all about. I mean, if you're not there for that, I mean, what was your public health career all about? Right. But it was intense. You know, none of us at our age ever lived through something like that before. All we could do is go based on history of what happened like in 1918 with the flu. So here's a couple of other questions I have. How do you balance?

Because that's what it was all about. I mean, if you're not there for that, I mean, what was your public health career all about? Right. But it was intense. You know, none of us at our age ever lived through something like that before. All we could do is go based on history of what happened like in 1918 with the flu. So here's a couple of other questions I have. How do you balance?

And this has always been a kind of an issue. How do you balance the avenues of medicine? with the avenues of public health as a leader on the public health side of the equation. Because there's always that integration that needs to be done and that collaboration that needs to be done. But oftentimes they're in their own ways. How did you deal with that?

And this has always been a kind of an issue. How do you balance the avenues of medicine? with the avenues of public health as a leader on the public health side of the equation. Because there's always that integration that needs to be done and that collaboration that needs to be done. But oftentimes they're in their own ways. How did you deal with that?

As you think about it going forward, it seems to me that what COVID provided us, maybe there's a silver lining in it, is a quick opportunity for lessons learned. But we have to act on those lessons learned. We have to somehow or other coalesce those lessons so that, frankly, quickly, so that we can take advantage of them before we forget what they are.