Stephen Dubner

What are the other things that make mice and rats still really popular subjects of this kind of research? Is it that they're available, cheap, docile, that they breed quickly, that they respond quickly?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And how do you feel about that as a human?

And how do you feel about that as a human?

And how do you feel about that as a human?

Says the woman who, as a scientist, did her share of rat and mouse experiments. Sure did. And I'm guessing a bunch of them died in the process of that, yes?

Says the woman who, as a scientist, did her share of rat and mouse experiments. Sure did. And I'm guessing a bunch of them died in the process of that, yes?

Says the woman who, as a scientist, did her share of rat and mouse experiments. Sure did. And I'm guessing a bunch of them died in the process of that, yes?

Okay. For the record, I'm looking here at your author photo where you're looking like a regular human, right? Dressed nicely, standing in a nice place. But then you've got this rat kind of curled, not even curled up, like luxuriating in the crook of your arm.

Okay. For the record, I'm looking here at your author photo where you're looking like a regular human, right? Dressed nicely, standing in a nice place. But then you've got this rat kind of curled, not even curled up, like luxuriating in the crook of your arm.

Okay. For the record, I'm looking here at your author photo where you're looking like a regular human, right? Dressed nicely, standing in a nice place. But then you've got this rat kind of curled, not even curled up, like luxuriating in the crook of your arm.

This kind of affection toward the rat, expressed here by Brookshire and earlier by Julia Zichello, would seem to be rare. Anti-rat sentiment is widespread and it is vocal. Let's not forget, New York Mayor Eric Adams calls rats public enemy number one. But there are other voices out there and other sentiments.

This kind of affection toward the rat, expressed here by Brookshire and earlier by Julia Zichello, would seem to be rare. Anti-rat sentiment is widespread and it is vocal. Let's not forget, New York Mayor Eric Adams calls rats public enemy number one. But there are other voices out there and other sentiments.

This kind of affection toward the rat, expressed here by Brookshire and earlier by Julia Zichello, would seem to be rare. Anti-rat sentiment is widespread and it is vocal. Let's not forget, New York Mayor Eric Adams calls rats public enemy number one. But there are other voices out there and other sentiments.

A researcher at Utrecht University in the Netherlands named Koen Bomer published a paper called Catching the Rat, in which he examines the portrayal of rats in 20th century novels, movies, comics and more. In this analysis, Bomer found an extraordinarily diverse spectrum of human-rat relations. He argues that for many people, rats are no longer seen chiefly as villains.

A researcher at Utrecht University in the Netherlands named Koen Bomer published a paper called Catching the Rat, in which he examines the portrayal of rats in 20th century novels, movies, comics and more. In this analysis, Bomer found an extraordinarily diverse spectrum of human-rat relations. He argues that for many people, rats are no longer seen chiefly as villains.

A researcher at Utrecht University in the Netherlands named Koen Bomer published a paper called Catching the Rat, in which he examines the portrayal of rats in 20th century novels, movies, comics and more. In this analysis, Bomer found an extraordinarily diverse spectrum of human-rat relations. He argues that for many people, rats are no longer seen chiefly as villains.

And here's Bethany Brookshire again.