Stephen Dubner

Okay. And then how is plague spread between humans? For that, we will bring in another scientist.

Okay. And then how is plague spread between humans? For that, we will bring in another scientist.

That is Niels Christian Stenseth, a professor of ecology and evolution at the University of Oslo.

That is Niels Christian Stenseth, a professor of ecology and evolution at the University of Oslo.

That is Niels Christian Stenseth, a professor of ecology and evolution at the University of Oslo.

The Black Death tore through Europe in the mid-14th century. It is hard to believe just how brutal it was.

The Black Death tore through Europe in the mid-14th century. It is hard to believe just how brutal it was.

The Black Death tore through Europe in the mid-14th century. It is hard to believe just how brutal it was.

During the Middle Ages, it was neither rats nor fleas who were thought to be responsible for the Black Death. Most of the blame was put on witches and Jews, but time and science eventually caught up with the rats. And if anything is gonna give an animal species a bad reputation, It's killing off half of Europe. The association between rats and plague remains strong today.

During the Middle Ages, it was neither rats nor fleas who were thought to be responsible for the Black Death. Most of the blame was put on witches and Jews, but time and science eventually caught up with the rats. And if anything is gonna give an animal species a bad reputation, It's killing off half of Europe. The association between rats and plague remains strong today.

During the Middle Ages, it was neither rats nor fleas who were thought to be responsible for the Black Death. Most of the blame was put on witches and Jews, but time and science eventually caught up with the rats. And if anything is gonna give an animal species a bad reputation, It's killing off half of Europe. The association between rats and plague remains strong today.

In the opening credits of The Decameron, a new Netflix show set during the Black Death, a massive swarm of rats come together to spell out the title. And the recent remake of the film Nosferatu shows a pack of rats following the vampire, carrying the plague with them. But were rats really responsible for the Black Death?

In the opening credits of The Decameron, a new Netflix show set during the Black Death, a massive swarm of rats come together to spell out the title. And the recent remake of the film Nosferatu shows a pack of rats following the vampire, carrying the plague with them. But were rats really responsible for the Black Death?

In the opening credits of The Decameron, a new Netflix show set during the Black Death, a massive swarm of rats come together to spell out the title. And the recent remake of the film Nosferatu shows a pack of rats following the vampire, carrying the plague with them. But were rats really responsible for the Black Death?

That's coming up after the break. I'm Stephen Dubner, and this is Freakonomics Radio. One reason that rats are so despised is because they spread disease. The most famous instance being the Black Death, a pandemic of bubonic plague in the 14th century that killed millions upon millions of Europeans. But scientists have recently challenged the claim that rats caused the Black Death.

That's coming up after the break. I'm Stephen Dubner, and this is Freakonomics Radio. One reason that rats are so despised is because they spread disease. The most famous instance being the Black Death, a pandemic of bubonic plague in the 14th century that killed millions upon millions of Europeans. But scientists have recently challenged the claim that rats caused the Black Death.

That's coming up after the break. I'm Stephen Dubner, and this is Freakonomics Radio. One reason that rats are so despised is because they spread disease. The most famous instance being the Black Death, a pandemic of bubonic plague in the 14th century that killed millions upon millions of Europeans. But scientists have recently challenged the claim that rats caused the Black Death.

Scientists including Niels Christian Stenseff at the University of Oslo. Challenging a claim like this is not a simple thing.

Scientists including Niels Christian Stenseff at the University of Oslo. Challenging a claim like this is not a simple thing.

Scientists including Niels Christian Stenseff at the University of Oslo. Challenging a claim like this is not a simple thing.