Stephen Kotkin

And so what motivates, what triggers political defection?

The lack of legitimacy, political illegitimacy.

People are not going to die for something that they no longer believe in.

And so that's a really big problem that the communist regime can't solve with tech.

And you say, well, the tech could produce power and prosperity and China could re-legitimize its rule.

just like it did with the economic growth.

And so the economic growth did it for 30, 40 years.

And that's how the regime legitimated itself.

And then the tech will do that for the next 30, 40 years.

And the answer is that hasn't happened yet.

So maybe it can do that and maybe it can't, but it's never permanent.

What's permanent is power rooted in the people.

What's permanent is they're real citizens.

They have real freedoms.

They have the right to vote.

Now, they can't get what they want.

They go to the polls and they see bad candidate, worse candidate, even worse candidate.

But they can punish what they don't like.

They can exercise that agency.

They can be citizens.