Stephen Macedo

Yes. You know, the lockdowns had lots of holes in them. The social distancing measures were very porous. A third of workers had to keep working as essential workers to keep the rest of us well fed, the electricity on. So it really was not possible to lock down the entire economy or the workforce.

Yes. You know, the lockdowns had lots of holes in them. The social distancing measures were very porous. A third of workers had to keep working as essential workers to keep the rest of us well fed, the electricity on. So it really was not possible to lock down the entire economy or the workforce.

I was just going to add one, which is the tremendous expenditures on COVID relief. Now, some of that was going to be necessary, but Francis has pointed out that the initial expenditures were equivalent to the New Deal and the— So the—

I was just going to add one, which is the tremendous expenditures on COVID relief. Now, some of that was going to be necessary, but Francis has pointed out that the initial expenditures were equivalent to the New Deal and the— So the—

Right. It's very hard to say for sure what will succeed in raising trust in the institutions in our society that are in the business of pursuing the truth, science, science journalism, the academy, and so on. But we should try to behave in a more trustworthy fashion and hope that greater trust follows from that.

Right. It's very hard to say for sure what will succeed in raising trust in the institutions in our society that are in the business of pursuing the truth, science, science journalism, the academy, and so on. But we should try to behave in a more trustworthy fashion and hope that greater trust follows from that.

We need a franker conversation about what happened and how we can do better the next time around.

We need a franker conversation about what happened and how we can do better the next time around.

I guess I would say that we need to consider the costs as well as the hoped-for benefits of policies that are adopted, especially these kinds of non-pharmaceutical interventions, social distancing measures, and so on. And we need to have

I guess I would say that we need to consider the costs as well as the hoped-for benefits of policies that are adopted, especially these kinds of non-pharmaceutical interventions, social distancing measures, and so on. And we need to have

wider and more tolerant deliberation about these matters and not repose as much authority in narrow experts who have tunnel vision very often, who admitted after COVID to having tunnel vision. Francis Collins admitted quite frankly in July 2023 that public health officials, including himself, focused way too narrowly on a narrow set of public health outcomes.

wider and more tolerant deliberation about these matters and not repose as much authority in narrow experts who have tunnel vision very often, who admitted after COVID to having tunnel vision. Francis Collins admitted quite frankly in July 2023 that public health officials, including himself, focused way too narrowly on a narrow set of public health outcomes.

Right. And in light of that quotation, how can we not? How can we not look back? It's an invitation to have a reckoning. Right. How could we not have the reckoning given what Francis Collins has said?

Right. And in light of that quotation, how can we not? How can we not look back? It's an invitation to have a reckoning. Right. How could we not have the reckoning given what Francis Collins has said?

We appreciate the conversation.

We appreciate the conversation.

we'll be right back here's what else you need to know today

we'll be right back here's what else you need to know today