Steve Bannon

And the reason we asked Pastor Webben to come on the show is last week, Senator Cruz

shared an article.

Many people will have seen this.

It's basically lit up.

Everyone in the sector, their Twitter algorithms lit up with this.

And Senator Cruz said, read every word of this.

It's the best and most comprehensive explanation of what we're fighting.

And his tweet had 3 million views.

The article he was pushing out had, I think, 5 million or so visualizations.

And it basically got everyone talking about...

for some corners of evangelicalism, the idea that traditional Catholics are plotting a takeover of the American state.

But that's not really what I want to discuss in that, because what really interested me is the standing assumption, and I think this came through very clearly,

that the author's principal preoccupation was that American evangelicalism might be losing its grip on Zionism, on the pro-Israel state stance, which has subsumed a huge section of contemporary American evangelicalism.

And I wanted to dig into that because it wasn't always so.

and Pastor Joel Webben has been active on this issue in social media.

I thought he would have interesting things to say, especially to our largely evangelical audience.

Pastor Webben, thank you very much indeed for coming on the show.

Tell me, if you wouldn't mind, in your own words then, about this wider debate.

Why are some

dispensationalist evangelicals concerned that the evangelical institution, if I can use that word, the evangelical churches grip on the narrative, the pro-Zionist narrative might be slipping.