Steve Benson

spend the money over a year year and a half and then get value out of it create more revenue your MRR goes up and then you're paying back the loan for the next you know two and a half years with that increased MRR and if you came out ahead it was a good idea to take the debt if you come up behind it was a bad idea but if in a fast-growing SaaS company it's always a good idea our our our

our returns way higher.

So you, it's, it's always basically even, even fairly expensive debt is always a really good deal because if you're, if your return on that capital is 50% or 60% and it costs 16%, you're way, way ahead.

Well, like I said, it's not, it's not the, I mean, the perfect place would be like ads or something that where you get a quick payback.

I mean, product development, it's even worse than like hiring salespeople because salespeople pay off.

In my opinion, sales or marketing or anything on the revenue side pays off faster, but at a lower ultimate rate.

Engineering resources and actually making the product better, creating that extra feature that wins you extra deals pays off at the highest rate, but over a longer period of time.

And that's why it's so important that you don't get the short term loans that I'm trying to think of the companies that do that are really big, like pipe.

And there's a bunch of companies.

Three quarters of the SAS lenders are like they want to do one year deals, which you can't invest in human capital over one year.

It doesn't pay.

Even a salesperson doesn't pay back fast enough because it's not just time to break even.

It's they had to.

you had to invest the money, and then you start pulling money out, and you need time to pay back from there for it to actually make sense.

So your question was, what was the exact term?

Lighter was four years.

All these are four-year loans.

Yeah, this is important, right?

First of all, you can't get this kind of debt unless you already have revenue.

These are all revenue-based debts.