Steve Brawnius

So you would expect that to be there.

You would totally expect a different kind of power, a memoir by a little-known politician called Jacinda Ardern, to be in the running for the non-fiction prize.

It was the biggest-selling book of any kind in New Zealand last year.

Well, yes, my book Polkinghorn made the long list, and that was really thrilling.

And again, it was that sense of reward, you know.

You don't know what you...

well, you know what you're doing while you're writing, but you don't know if it's any good, I guess.

And getting on something like The Long List is some sort of vindication, I guess.

No, she did not steal my place, or neither did any of the three other books which have made the shortlist.

They're all really good.

It's a tough year, actually, for nonfiction in particular.

So you've got Naomi Arnold?

Who do you pick?

It's hard to call, you know.

Jacinda comes first to mind because her book was such a big seller and also because creatively it's a very good book.

She's written it well.

It's very candid.

And it's got, I've described it elsewhere, it's a book which has a hold on the New Zealand mind.

People who love it absolutely love it.

And that's an important thing to say, I think.