Steve Levitt

were with Freakonomics fans.

There's this power dynamic that happens in interviews where the interviewer is way below the interviewee.

And it's really hard to have a normal conversation because of that power dynamic.

But because so many of the guests knew Freakonomics and liked it, we could have different kinds of conversations.

Well, Richard Dawkins was not one of those people.

He had no idea who I was or why he was talking to me.

But over the course of 60 or 70 minutes,

I surprised him enough times that by the end, he said, wait, who are you again?

Didn't he then invite you to do a live event with him?

He did.

So that felt really good to me because at the end, he said, will you be the interviewer for a live event that I'm doing in Washington, D.C.?

And that felt really great that he bestowed that honor on me.

And then I totally blew it because when we went to the live event, I really thought of it

as being an extension of people I mostly admire.

And my interview with him had been almost all about the science, because what's interesting to me is what he's done in science.

But it turns out that the kind of people who will pay $75 to come see Richard Dawkins talk are not interested in his science.

They're interested in his social ideas about science.

atheism and whatnot.

And I totally missed the boat, and the entire session fell totally flat until Richard managed to successfully steer the conversation towards atheism.

People started clapping and cheering.