Steve Pagliuca

So it took 250 years

to have $1 trillion of national debt.

In the last 40 years, we now have $37 trillion, which is more than the GDP.

The GDP is about $30 trillion.

So that concerns me more in terms of the impact on the dollar.

Interest rates are interest from the government now is one of the highest expenditures.

It's right up there with defense and health care.

So that concerns me more than private credits.

Well, I think, I don't know if it is different, but in situations like this, it's always okay till it isn't okay.

So you get used to it.

You pass a trillion.

Everett Dirksen had a board up that was counting it up at that time.

And it passed a trillion.

There was a huge outcry.

Now it's $10 trillion, then $20 trillion, then $30 trillion.

But at some point, you've got to have some long-term plan to pay that money back and get that deficit down because it's eating up huge amounts of the government budget.

And as the interest rates roll over, a lot of that is still financed in the old, really low interest rates.

They're going to have to refinance it at 5%, 4.5%.

And then the number goes up again.

I don't think there's been a lot of pushback on that.