Steven Bartlett

And so it offers us some warnings, right?

It's, you know, we know what we should be trying to avoid.

As I said, if you focus hard on what it is that you don't want to happen, I mean, that's what strategy is, right?

And then you work backwards and you think, how do I make sure to prevent that from happening?

You know, then you begin to get a pretty clear idea of what's useful behavior in the present.

I suppose the most, I mean, the most challenging things I've experienced have been political shifts.

where when I saw radicalization, I saw the rise of illiberal groups and movements, including among people I knew closely and very well, and figuring out both how to cope with them and how to try to shift my thinking in order to understand how to explain it and deal with it.

That was probably the most important.

I'm very bad at it.

I mean, lots of people think that, you know, you should be able to, you know, be friends with everybody and talk to everybody.

And I see that.

I see some people are able to do that.

I find that I care too much.

Interesting.

It becomes hard for me.

Probably could interview anybody.

I mean, there would be some people who are hard to interview because they lie, you know, for example.

And then I don't know how to deal with that.

And you don't want to have an interview where you're correcting somebody the whole time.

I would certainly talk to anybody as a journalist.