Steven Pressfield

I mean, is there anybody doing anything like that today?

But that's sort of Telemann's passage.

Through pain, endless pain, comes eventually wisdom.

And that's what releases him in the end.

So God bless Bobby Kennedy for, number one, for knowing that, and then for being able to say it at that horrible moment after the assassination of Martin Luther King.

I would say absolutely.

And that's, again, like what the only way you can deal with that is on the level of the soul, not on the level of the ego.

Right.

Because the ego is going to lose.

You know, we're all going to eventually, like you say, we lose this body and we lose this life.

And God bless Tufts for teaching you that, Anthony.

I think the...

That the process is an evolution, a hero's journey that

starts with violence and ends with love, which really was kind of what the Spartan ethic was about, that Dramopoli.

You know, the sort of the theme of that story was the opposite of fear is love, right?

And so that is the journey, I think, that Telemann is on, and all the people in this book are on, of getting from the easy answer, which is violence,

to the really hard answer, which is quite a Christian answer, really.

And this is really a Christian book of forgiveness and of love and self-forgiveness.

Well, I'll tell you what I'm reading right now.

I have to reach here.