Steven

And you were aware again of being underestimated, but again, shoulders back, it seemed. Where does that come from in you?

And you were aware again of being underestimated, but again, shoulders back, it seemed. Where does that come from in you?

What's the scam?

What's the scam?

The journey you've both been on is really, really remarkable for so many reasons, but it's also remarkable for the pivots along the way. And I was reading about a bit of an identity crisis that you had when you were 27, 28 years old, Michelle, when you were a lawyer.

The journey you've both been on is really, really remarkable for so many reasons, but it's also remarkable for the pivots along the way. And I was reading about a bit of an identity crisis that you had when you were 27, 28 years old, Michelle, when you were a lawyer.

At Sidley and Austin.

At Sidley and Austin.

Craig, when was the first time you heard that your little sister had met a guy called Mr. Obama?

Craig, when was the first time you heard that your little sister had met a guy called Mr. Obama?

And what did you think of him, honestly?

And what did you think of him, honestly?

You rejected him at first, right?

You rejected him at first, right?

You both have that through line through your story of ticking the boxes. And then eventually, it's kind of what we were talking about yesterday on your show, where sometimes your preconception has to fail you.

You both have that through line through your story of ticking the boxes. And then eventually, it's kind of what we were talking about yesterday on your show, where sometimes your preconception has to fail you.

And you have to feel it for you to understand that maybe a pivot is needed in your life. And it was the same when I was talking about my early journey. Valerie, this very interesting character in your life. This is the letter, I found it, that Valerie wrote in to me. And she's talking about the pivot you made from being a lawyer to leaving that law firm and going in pursuit of something else.

And you have to feel it for you to understand that maybe a pivot is needed in your life. And it was the same when I was talking about my early journey. Valerie, this very interesting character in your life. This is the letter, I found it, that Valerie wrote in to me. And she's talking about the pivot you made from being a lawyer to leaving that law firm and going in pursuit of something else.

What was the something else you were pursuing before I read what Valerie said to me?

What was the something else you were pursuing before I read what Valerie said to me?