Susan Davis

And how Doge wants to reshape the federal workforce has been steeped in controversy and court battles. And NPR correspondents Shannon Bond and Chris Arnold have been focusing on all of this. And join me now. Hello to you both. Hey, Sue.

Chris, let's start with you. There are more than 2 million federal employees doing all different kinds of jobs all over the country and even the world. And you talked to just a couple of them, people who work at national parks who have been impacted by what Doge is doing. Tell us about them.

Chris, let's start with you. There are more than 2 million federal employees doing all different kinds of jobs all over the country and even the world. And you talked to just a couple of them, people who work at national parks who have been impacted by what Doge is doing. Tell us about them.

Chris, let's start with you. There are more than 2 million federal employees doing all different kinds of jobs all over the country and even the world. And you talked to just a couple of them, people who work at national parks who have been impacted by what Doge is doing. Tell us about them.

Chris, I think this is really interesting for a couple of reasons. I'm glad you made that point that like not all probationary workers are, you know, first job out of college types. But also personnel records are legal documents.

Chris, I think this is really interesting for a couple of reasons. I'm glad you made that point that like not all probationary workers are, you know, first job out of college types. But also personnel records are legal documents.

Chris, I think this is really interesting for a couple of reasons. I'm glad you made that point that like not all probationary workers are, you know, first job out of college types. But also personnel records are legal documents.

If you have a record of strong performance reviews of awards for excellence and the excuse your boss gives you is for failure to perform, that seems like it might open up even more of a legal avenue that maybe you were fired under false pretenses.

If you have a record of strong performance reviews of awards for excellence and the excuse your boss gives you is for failure to perform, that seems like it might open up even more of a legal avenue that maybe you were fired under false pretenses.

If you have a record of strong performance reviews of awards for excellence and the excuse your boss gives you is for failure to perform, that seems like it might open up even more of a legal avenue that maybe you were fired under false pretenses.

And so, Chris, what exactly is happening with these lawsuits now?

And so, Chris, what exactly is happening with these lawsuits now?

And so, Chris, what exactly is happening with these lawsuits now?

I think at this point, a lot of our listeners know what OPM is, but we should just note it's the Office of Personnel and Management, which essentially serves as like the HR for the federal government. And I think pushback is maybe thematically what we're seeing more of here, Shannon, especially when it comes to how Musk has been operating.

I think at this point, a lot of our listeners know what OPM is, but we should just note it's the Office of Personnel and Management, which essentially serves as like the HR for the federal government. And I think pushback is maybe thematically what we're seeing more of here, Shannon, especially when it comes to how Musk has been operating.

I think at this point, a lot of our listeners know what OPM is, but we should just note it's the Office of Personnel and Management, which essentially serves as like the HR for the federal government. And I think pushback is maybe thematically what we're seeing more of here, Shannon, especially when it comes to how Musk has been operating.

And by that, I mean there was this federal government-wide email sent out at his directive asking all federal employees to do a five bulleted point list of what they had accomplished that week to sort of justify their existence.

And by that, I mean there was this federal government-wide email sent out at his directive asking all federal employees to do a five bulleted point list of what they had accomplished that week to sort of justify their existence.

And by that, I mean there was this federal government-wide email sent out at his directive asking all federal employees to do a five bulleted point list of what they had accomplished that week to sort of justify their existence.

And it seems to me that the timing of this is not coincidental because Musk started taking these actions as soon as Donald Trump was inaugurated into office. But these cabinet secretaries are now being sworn in, the cabinet's being fully actualized, and it