Tal Zaks

when they were looking at the early days of EMRs, electronic medical records, now we call them EHRs, electronic health records, and realized that the implementation of those systems into hospital systems actually hurt productivity. Which is an abomination. I mean, the whole point of technology is to improve productivity. And I remember this as an intern.

when they were looking at the early days of EMRs, electronic medical records, now we call them EHRs, electronic health records, and realized that the implementation of those systems into hospital systems actually hurt productivity. Which is an abomination. I mean, the whole point of technology is to improve productivity. And I remember this as an intern.

I mean, people started to put PCs on nurses' desks and have the nurses start to spend time typing in. Okay, that just took time away from what they were doing. That didn't help anybody. If we figure out how to turn this on its head and actually find ways to put in systems that will improve productivity of the healthcare system, that's where I think the bull case is.

I mean, people started to put PCs on nurses' desks and have the nurses start to spend time typing in. Okay, that just took time away from what they were doing. That didn't help anybody. If we figure out how to turn this on its head and actually find ways to put in systems that will improve productivity of the healthcare system, that's where I think the bull case is.

And once we figure out how to do that and align that with an economic return on that investment, then I think you'll see an acceleration of change and the pace of change can actually be very rapid.

And once we figure out how to do that and align that with an economic return on that investment, then I think you'll see an acceleration of change and the pace of change can actually be very rapid.

That for me is still a little bit the realm of science fiction. You can get digital twins up to a point. They're going to be valuable, again, up to a point. The place where you need to be careful is we have to be able to balance this with the ethical obligations to patient autonomy and the other things that we hold dear and near to our heart. It can't be utilitarian because you

That for me is still a little bit the realm of science fiction. You can get digital twins up to a point. They're going to be valuable, again, up to a point. The place where you need to be careful is we have to be able to balance this with the ethical obligations to patient autonomy and the other things that we hold dear and near to our heart. It can't be utilitarian because you

the utilitarian approach will be dictatorial, and that's not gonna work. And I think we're already seeing a public backlash against science trying to assert itself in the name of good. Science is only in the name of good in how we use it and deploy it. So you could probably get your best healthcare system

the utilitarian approach will be dictatorial, and that's not gonna work. And I think we're already seeing a public backlash against science trying to assert itself in the name of good. Science is only in the name of good in how we use it and deploy it. So you could probably get your best healthcare system

up and running in a place where patients had no autonomy if you measured outcomes in a certain way. But of course, that's not a way that's acceptable to us to measure outcomes. So I think the world's going to stay messy, purposefully so. I hope so. I think it's what makes us human beings human.

up and running in a place where patients had no autonomy if you measured outcomes in a certain way. But of course, that's not a way that's acceptable to us to measure outcomes. So I think the world's going to stay messy, purposefully so. I hope so. I think it's what makes us human beings human.

And so in that regard, I think I'm a little bit more circumspect for how rapid some of these technologies will actually be able to be deployed. And we're going to have to be careful to balance. And that's true of AI technology. in general, in every application sphere, no less healthcare.

And so in that regard, I think I'm a little bit more circumspect for how rapid some of these technologies will actually be able to be deployed. And we're going to have to be careful to balance. And that's true of AI technology. in general, in every application sphere, no less healthcare.

I'll tell you, the kindest thing anybody's ever done for me was probably Steve Rosenberg when he took me into his lab back in the NCI in the late 90s. And the kindest thing he did was that as I probably wasn't one of his best postdocs, I kept proving why things didn't work as opposed to showing things that did work.

I'll tell you, the kindest thing anybody's ever done for me was probably Steve Rosenberg when he took me into his lab back in the NCI in the late 90s. And the kindest thing he did was that as I probably wasn't one of his best postdocs, I kept proving why things didn't work as opposed to showing things that did work.

And as I was leaving, he said, look, Tal, if there's anything I can do to support you in your future, don't hesitate. You know, I didn't feel like I was that good. I wasn't sure did he really mean it, but it took me almost a quarter of a century to realize how deeply he meant it. Because not only did he come and support me over time, but I tried in his lab to make an mRNA vaccine for cancer.

And as I was leaving, he said, look, Tal, if there's anything I can do to support you in your future, don't hesitate. You know, I didn't feel like I was that good. I wasn't sure did he really mean it, but it took me almost a quarter of a century to realize how deeply he meant it. Because not only did he come and support me over time, but I tried in his lab to make an mRNA vaccine for cancer.

We did it in mice. We published it back in 1998 or so. And when I was at Moderna, and now this is 2016, 2017, so 20 years later, and we've come up with this personalized cancer vaccine, I called him up and I said, hey, Steve, he's the best example of a public servant scientist that one can ever hope to meet. And he's one of these people who've actually not just moved the whole field of medicine,

We did it in mice. We published it back in 1998 or so. And when I was at Moderna, and now this is 2016, 2017, so 20 years later, and we've come up with this personalized cancer vaccine, I called him up and I said, hey, Steve, he's the best example of a public servant scientist that one can ever hope to meet. And he's one of these people who've actually not just moved the whole field of medicine,