Tanya Mosley

Okay.

You also talked with a neuroscientist on the team, Jack Lindsay.

He is an LLM skeptic.

Overall, in thinking about these experiments, he says he doesn't think that anything mystical is going on, but he says that Claude's self-awareness has gotten much better in a way that he wasn't expecting.

How do you interpret that?

I was so fascinated among many things that you wrote about, but this emotional texture of how researchers relate to Claude.

It was one of the most revealing threads in your piece.

One of the things that got me was that nobody at Anthropic likes lying to Claude.

And I don't quite know what that even means, but why don't they?

Because it's just software, right?

Why would one feel guilty about deceiving a program?

Yeah.

Right.

What's input, I mean, becomes part of the larger learning.

Right.

Exactly.

So if it's lied to, right.

If you're just joining us, I'm talking with Gideon Lewis-Kraus about his New Yorker piece on the AI company Anthropic and its chatbot, Claude.

We'll be right back.

This is Fresh Air.