Terry Gross

And one of them said he didn't marry the women.

He married the women to his band, which is like what you were saying.

What else did you hear from the women you spoke to who had been in his band and married to him?

So we have to talk about FESTAC.

FESTAC was supposed to be a joyous festival, basically, I think, like uniting black people from around the world.

And this festival of joy is run by a dictator.

So Fela was put on the planning committee, and then he made a list of demands.

Tell us about a couple of the demands.

So what's the short version of how Fela's counter-festival to Fesdak led to the burning of his house?

Well, it's been great to talk with you, Jad.

Thank you so much.

Jad Abumrad's new podcast is called Fela Kuti, Fear No Man.

One of the many things you may know my guest journalist Michael Pollan for is his book, How to Change Your Mind, with the new science of psychedelics teaches us about consciousness, which was published in 2018.

It was in part about the therapeutic use of psychedelics to change your consciousness to relieve trauma or help tone down the fear of death for people who were terminally ill.

His new book explores consciousness, but from a different perspective, like what does it mean to be conscious?

What creates consciousness?

And how it distinguishes humans from, for example, plants.

But many botanists are starting to believe plants have some form of consciousness.

Another question Pollan deals with is one many of us have been asking.

Can artificial intelligence ever develop consciousness?