Terry Gross

We'll be right back.

This is Fresh Air.

This is fresh air.

Let's get back to my interview with Peter Ames Carlin, author of the book Tonight in Jungleland, The Making of Born to Run.

I spoke to him in August.

So Born to Run, I think, is an arguably a brilliant album.

It's a masterpiece.

Springsteen has like tinkered with every aspect of it over and over and over again until he thinks it's, you know, as good as he can get it.

But then when he finally hears the acetate and the acetate is like what they cut the final recording out of.

This is in the days of vinyl albums before CDs, let alone the Internet.

Tell us what happens after he hears it.

But John Landau saved the day with that.

Do you think that Springsteen now recognizes the greatness of Born to Run?

Born to Run was also a turning point for Springsteen as a songwriter because he describes it as like the dividing line between his songs about like youth and becoming an adult as opposed to like being an adult.

And in 2005, the first time I interviewed him, he talked about that, how it was a turning point in his songwriting and kind of like the end of one era of his songwriting.

So I want to play that excerpt.

Another thing I love about Springsteen is that he is very reflective and comprehending about his own work and looking back on his past, understanding what he did and why.

He's also funny.

Well, Peter Carlin, I enjoyed this a lot.

Thank you so much for coming to Fresh Air.