Tim Wu

Now, maybe those were very high hopes,

But this is the key concept in my book.

And I think key to understanding the economics of our time is the importance of platforms, which are any space or any institution that brings together buyers or sellers, speakers or listeners.

Every civilization has had platforms.

I was in Rome a few weeks ago, and you go to the Roman Forum, and there it is, it's all together.

The buyers, the sellers, they have the courts, they have where people gave their speeches.

They're kind of the core of every civilization.

And at some level, why I wrote this book is I was interested in this question of what our fundamental platforms look like and how that reflects on the civilization we are building.

Because I do think they have a large impact.

I think that's kind of undeniable.

I think that, you know, things have gotten worse in many dimensions.

And I guess it relates to my view of the state of the country as well.

I think we've been in a better place in other periods of American history.

And I think the Internet's not the only cause, but I think it's part of it.

So your books are two frameworks for understanding what I would call corporate capture of the internet.

The way we went from the dream of a decentralized, user-controlled internet to something that a small number of corporations really run and have enormous power over.

And Tim, the term you focus on is extraction.

Corey, the term you focus on is inchidification.

So I'd like you just both to define those terms for me.

What is extraction, Tim?