Tina Brown

I will say that when I say that you do see the light fade from the eyes, you know.

Well, I mean, I didn't understand their relationship at the time because you never saw Epstein with her, actually.

When Ghislaine was kind of working the scene,

I think Epstein was slightly in her rearview mirror when I knew her.

I didn't really know about that background with Epstein until I read about it later.

I think that she was...

an abused figure herself, actually.

I mean, her father, Robert Maxwell, was a really terrible, tyrannical guy, a press baron at the time and a crook.

You know, he also, very ironically for her in terms of her life story, he also died mysteriously in a suicide or was it a murder when he went over the side of his boat, having robbed the pension fund.

So he was a crook, the father, but he was a crook that was

the king of the world for a time.

So she was raised in that atmosphere of the glorious press baron, only to find that, in fact, he was a crook.

So she had that sort of trauma.

But I also had this great sort of story in my book, which I found when I was reporting the palace papers, that she took somebody up to her room when she was a little girl to show her her room.

And she said, and all the brushes were like, her hairbrushes were laid out on the counter.

And she said, oh, yes, she said, those are my hairbrushes.

Daddy lets me choose one when he wants to beat me.

So, I mean, you just suddenly saw, you know, he was sort of asking her to curate her own punishment for him to abuse.

So that, I think, is at the core of it, that her father was this really terrible person.

But I think with Epstein, she was mad about him.