Tina Knowles
Appearances
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
And you deserve the rest.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
That is a testament. I mean, even on suits. I was on suits for seven years. And I remember so many other actresses, especially if you're in that grind. Yes. They said, you are going to fry your hair. And everyone was recommending that I should start wearing wigs. I never ended up doing it. By the way, if I was in that industry longer... I understand why you need to protect your hair in that way.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Yeah. Or even if you don't curl your hair every day, just natural UV rays and sun damage. Our hair is like our skin. We are exposed to all sorts of things that need extra care. And I think that's what Sacred has started to really tap into, that it's not a unique position that you need to take. It's just holistic hair care.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
I know. Trust me. Do you know why I know? Because when you're talking about consumables, even jam... Yes, because you're doing food. Yes, you go, it has the same restriction, not the same, but very similar restrictions and nuance as when you're looking at FDA, as when you're looking at compliance for beauty, people that do skincare and sun creams and all of that.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
I think, oh my, we all have this level of constant... stress testing the product and you can say, oh, I made this in my house, like you with your egg whites and your olive oil. And I'm going, I just picked these strawberries and it's so great. Look, I just put a little bit of sugar and some Meyer lemon.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
And you try to scale that up and you're wanting to manage expectations, but you want to share the thing you've worked so hard on. And so for me at the moment with As Ever, it was great. We plan, we plan for a year, we get, and then everything sells out in 45 minutes, which yes,
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Then what do you do? And then you say, okay, we planned as best as we could. Are we going to replenish and sell out again in an hour? Or is that annoying as a customer? I'm looking at it and saying, just pause. That happened. Let's wait until we are... Ready to go. Completely stable and we have everything we need. I go through the same thing.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Right, where you're trying to just balance inventory, cost. Yes. I mean, at least our things are shelf stable. Yes.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
It's a part. They see all the flashy stuff and they see the product. But that end game, I think you're right. Those behind the scenes moments, how many tears I've shed. Yes.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Yeah, I think that scarcity mentality at the beginning might be a hook for people, not dissimilar to a sneaker drop.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
But when you're talking about products that you need to be consistent with are foods that you want to provide to your family. I don't want you to eat that jam once every six months. I want that to be on your shelf all the time. You want us to wash our hair with these products all the time.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
So trying to keep up with that demand, I think, is something that's really helpful for people to have that insight on no matter who you are, that That part of the process as an entrepreneur is not easy, that numbers game.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
And I know that in the pages of your new memoir, Matriarch, you delve into so many of these elements, growing a business, but also juggling that with the very personal element of your life as a wife, as a mother. So I'm curious, what is one of the key takeaways you want people to have from the stories in there?
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
But I didn't. But 70 years young, I mean, look at you. And I think there's such a wisdom that comes with that kind of life experience.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
To have a seat at the table. Exactly. Well, and that will carry through for your whole life if that's from the very beginning.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
I'm Megan, and this is Confessions of a Female Founder, a show where I chat with female entrepreneurs and friends about the sleepless nights, the lessons learned, and the laser focus that got them to where they are today. No. There's something incredible about a young woman who is willing to roll the dice on herself, be an entrepreneur, and build.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Well, and that was her way of protecting you. It was. From what she knew, that would be the best way to protect you. And I think that's generationally really different. Yes. You're in deference to things that you look up to, and that's what you stick all of your faith in. Without questioning, are you losing any of yourself in that? Exactly.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Oh, no. Do you eat local honey? That can help. Okay.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
You have to get back on that because I just, the other day, one of Archie's little friends at school, this little girl has such bad allergies. And I said, hold on a minute. We have bees. Let me give you a jar of our honey.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Oh, my gosh. Well, I know she has a beehive. I didn't know she had bees. No, real bees. The real ones, yeah. I mean, we have, yes, we have like a little apiary down there and three of them. And Archie has his little beekeeper suit. Oh, that is so cool. With the whole hat on and the gloves. It's great. But I will say for allergies, helpful because the local, you know, if it's local honey. Yes, yes.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
get all the pollen, all the same things in your system, and then it desensitizes allergies. But I'm sorry. Oh, well, thank you. That's no fun. Of course.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
No, no. Don't be silly. What fascinates me, too, about Sacred is that you're working directly with your daughter. You're working directly with Beyonce on this. And you've worked with the girls for years. But this is a different type of endeavor. Just curious. I mean, I wonder if one day I'll be in business with Lily and we'll be building something. Yeah, that's the best.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
What advice do you have for people really digging into business together in that way, especially as mother and daughter?
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
And it would be wasted time. Yeah, it would be wasted time.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
And also, you know, I think it's just part of the evolution of in any partnership with business, right? Of course, it's more layered if you're in business with family. But ultimately, any business, you're going to have to make strategic decisions and you're going to have to, at a certain point, come to agreement. And trust. And trust and communication.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
That's really important. That's a key facet, I think, for whether you're in business with a partner or someone that you know and love or just in business in general. If there is no trust there, I think the entire foundation is fractured. Exactly. Exactly.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Yeah. Well, and you also said at the beginning, even your original experience in having the salon, that it did so much for your self-esteem.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Those relationships of how we support each other taps into that as well, where you go, someone believes in me. Right. You know, I think as you look towards some of the biggest wins that you've been having, can you think of some of the biggest learns and lessons that you've had along the way that will be helpful for some of these women listening?
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Let's say you're in your 20s and you start doing that. Let's say you're in your 30s. Let's say you do that in your 30s and 40s as a working mom and you're trying to figure it out. There is something where I just put my hands up and applaud all of you who are doing the thing. And then there is something that gets a standing ovation.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Exactly. Yeah. Especially if you're working. So for a working mom, how does she do that? How do you carve out time for each of them individually?
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
And that is when you are in your 70s and you say, I'm still going to build and I'm still going to invent and I'm still going to create. That is next level entrepreneurship. And that is why I am thrilled to have this guest on today. She knows it better than anyone else. I am talking about Miss Tina Knowles.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
As a mom, in many ways, it is like being an entrepreneur because you are creating, you're building every day. You're creating, you don't need to call it a brand. It's not a brand, but your family and what you're creating and working on every single day. And you don't get a do-over.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Right. And also in you being able to carve out the time to specifically look at each of their needs as human beings, that I would imagine is part of what allowed you to be such a brand visionary, which you are. I think that without question, everyone would say you're able to see the individual talent and skills and opportunities for growth as well.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
And then the holistic views when you put Destiny's Child together in that way, you're able to see the brand vision as a whole. I'm curious how when you look at for yourself what your brand vision is for you, for Miss Tina.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
She's a fashion designer, beauty entrepreneur, cultural icon who has spent decades celebrating and elevating Black style alongside her daughters. From creating a one-of-a-kind hair salon in the 80s to designing looks for Destiny's Child, Miss Tina, she's always been a force in business.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
So if you started the salon to be the antidote for a place that was not nurturing and a space of gossip. Right. So you start that all those years back then. You continue with this support of your girls and being a working mom. And now you translate all that knowledge into sacred and you put it in a book for people to read. But it's the same thing.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
You're the same person with the same set of values of how you want to show up for people. Yes. It's true. And now you're sharing that in a broader way, which I think is just testament to your authenticity. Thank you. Oh, my goodness, of course. Anything else that you think would be helpful for people to know or for young entrepreneurs as they're on their journey?
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Yeah, it's interesting.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Something greater than yourself or faith in yourself. That's right. Yeah. I used to have a quote up in my trailer years ago that said, my faith is greater than my fear.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Oh, my God.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
I'll let it go. I mean, that is easier said than done for a lot of people. But I think that is what you said earlier, just you don't want wasted time. This time is precious. And I imagine, you know, you were saying if last July... Having this breast cancer scare and you're healthy and good now. Yes.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
I mean, what a blessing. Yes. Really, it just probably puts into perspective even more so why every day, every minute, all of it matters.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
And now she's channeled that into Sacred, the science-backed hair care line that she launched with her daughter, Beyoncé.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Mm-hmm. So look, so you're busy, you're on the tour. I'm sure I'm going to see you on one of those, one of the dates. We've all been trying to rally to figure out which one, which show to come to. My mom just went last week. She did? She did. I didn't even know. She was like, oh, I just went. She goes, oh, she's so good. I was like, you went, you didn't tell me.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
I wish I would have talked to her, got to say hi. I know, I know. She was lovely. But, you know, how's the tour been going? Good?
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Oh, my gosh. I can't wait. Yeah, y'all got to come. I know. I can't wait.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Oh, I bet. I can't imagine how you can juggle all of it. But my goodness, did your girls adopt your work ethic? That's a good thing. There's something to be said for that. Sometimes. Sometimes they work too much. But you're also going to instill in them the same thing you're saying right now, which is to take that time for yourself. To balance, yeah.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Yes, and I think that's going to be one of the hardest lessons. Look, even for me, I hear you saying that, and I'm integrating that, going... Just take a minute to breathe. Enjoy it. Go have a date night. We have a date night tonight. That's right. Exactly. Look, I appreciate you. If there's any way I can uplift and continue to support, you tell me. I'm always here. Thank you so much.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
You are wonderful.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Yes. Well, this should be the fun stuff. Celebrating you. All right.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Thank you. You too. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Together, the two of them have built something incredibly special, and Sacred has already racked up 30 industry awards all in just one year. Beyond her business success, though, Tina has written a new memoir called Matriarch, in which she shares the personal journey behind her family's legacy, her breast cancer experience last year, and building a life rooted in pride and purpose.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
She is proof that being a mama mogul is not just a title. It's a blueprint for building something that lasts across generations. Here she is. Hi. Oh, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Good. I'm so happy to be sitting down with you. Oh, I'm happy to be sitting down with you. Thank you. Of course. I'm so glad you reached out. And I love seeing Yvette there.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
I don't know if I wrote her a letter after I went to Bea's concert a couple years ago. She said the kindest things. I just wanted her to know how much it meant to me.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Tyler Perry.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Yes. Well, he's a good friend to have. He's the most extraordinary soundboard. And even, you know, it's interesting for us to be sitting down talking about business because he is that person that when I have questions about business or just when you feel like you're off your path, I need to check in with Tyler.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
That will fill your cup. Tyler Perry can do that. Exactly. It's amazing, though, that at 70 plus, because I've talked to entrepreneurs on this program who are in their 20s. Yeah. Oh, I know. Oh, I know. I mean, literally, I'm sitting here in my 40s. Well, you know, Beyonce and I, I think just we're the same age. She's a couple of weeks. She's born in September, right?
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
And I'm in August this year.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Four this year. Are you a Virgo, too? I'm a Leo. H is a Virgo. You're a Leo. Okay. My mom's a Virgo. H is a Virgo. Oh, really? I'm surrounded by Virgos. Oh, okay.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
It is such a good sign. It is. But look at you right now. I can't even imagine. You have so many plates spinning. I do. Does it feel as though even with the exhaustion, even with the swirl around all of it, does it feel like it's your time? Oh, absolutely.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
An act of service. Exactly. Just at first glance, you go, that's the most giftable book in the world because you have to put that in someone's hands. It needs to be in everyone's home.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
But I think the inside is really obviously the true gift, which is what your journey has been, obviously as a working mom, but as a female entrepreneur, which is why I'm so happy we get to talk and have this bonus episode. For people who are listening, especially young women who want to start something, Do you think you have to find yourself first and then be able to find your business?
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Or you can find your business and through that business you start to find yourself?
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
I mean, that's really helpful because a lot of people would say you need to know yourself before you know what you're going to start. But it seems like we're all kind of figuring it out along the way. And also we evolve as women. And the chapters of being a mother evolve. I mean, Archie turns six tomorrow. Where did the time go? Where did the time go?
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
I remember carrying him out there and I was just like, he is now six years old. We had his birthday party yesterday. But you look up and really, I think everything is in constant fluid motion. But the common denominator is you knew even when you had a salon back then to now having sacred in this moment in time, the connective tissue is the same.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
That's right.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Yes. That's a hit. How did you end up finding what would be that secret sauce to make it special? It was headliners, right?
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Luxuriate a little.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
So, yeah. Well, I think that's part of it. It doesn't necessarily have to be reinventing the wheel. And that's important for people to hear because right now I think it's in the authenticity that you find your originality. Exactly. It is what is so, so pure and true to you. So you found something that you wanted to plug a hole for. Look, I remember... me with all my hair growing up. Oh, my gosh.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
And my mom would have to drop me off at the hair salon. And I would. I would sit there for three to four hours for them to press and curl my hair. And that was, I'm talking like at the age of 13. Right.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
Hearing a lot of things you should not be hearing. That you should not be hearing. Absolutely. You should have no visibility. Right. So right out of the gate, Headliners was successful, correct?
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
I'm so curious how you go from in Texas, starting the hair salon, having the girls there, and then all these years later, evolving this into now Sacred, which is incredible. And I mean, just the accolades. Why did you want to start something else?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You know? And you had to stay outside, because your mama put you outside. Right, right. So go outside until it get ready to get dark, and then come back in, because there's no space. And this girl, Bedina, I used to fight. Uh-huh. See there? She used to fight me. She used to beat the crap out of me. And my brother, I remember I broke my thumb, and I had a cast on. And he said, you got superpowers.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
There's superpowers in that cast. And I went and hit Medina. I started a fight with her and just hit her. Because sometimes you've got to do that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Dee Dee? Yeah. So what did Dee Dee want? Just didn't like you for no reason.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And see, you have the same story, because you didn't even have a reason that day. You waiting for her to bully you. She gave me reasons many of the days. That's what I'm saying. So that day, you just catch them off guard. But I hit Medina, knocked Medina down. And then I said, oh, what did I do? I ran home. No, I ran home. I was like, Medina is going to beat the crap out of me.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
But Medina respected me after that. So I tell my grandchildren that story.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And their parents are like, don't be telling my kids to go fight. Like, you got to protect yourself.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
See, that's that double Capricorn energy.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
It comes from my mother, just mothering everybody. You know, they call my mama Teeny Mama. Teeny Mama, I love that. And my mom just adopted the whole neighborhood.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Teeny Mama.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
So, you know, she mothered people and she took people in, and so that's all I've known my whole life. And I know in my heart that we are born to families, but that other people, I mean, it might not be your blood, Mama, but... But, you know, sometimes, but you can have a mama. And I just love mothering. It's my gift. I think God gave to me, so I love it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And it's brought me so much joy. And I say all the time that, again, I just want to reiterate that some of us are not blessed enough to have our blood family, but you can still have a family. There is always somebody out there that needs some love, too. And you just exchange that love.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Yeah, well, some of the... You know, I want to talk about that, too, because my mother was a wonderful woman, and she was a great mom, but she had a lot of fear, and she put that fear... Tried to put it on me, but I was just too wild and stubborn to listen. But she also was so... When I say she's overprotective, I felt like she didn't trust me. I went through some teenage years where my mom was...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
you know, she just, I felt like, you know, I just felt like she was, she didn't trust me. She thought I was fast or I was going to go get pregnant and my friends got pregnant. And so then she was like, oh, you know, she just harped on that so much. And sometimes created a little shame about things that I shouldn't even felt shame about. So I'm very honest about that because my mom was flawed.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
She wasn't perfect. She was darn near perfect in other ways, but in that way, we had a rough teenage year time. Because I felt like, and when you guys read the book, you'll see that there were times when I felt like she didn't trust me, and I have an older sister who's here tonight. Flo, I don't know where you are.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Oh, okay. Okay.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Are we going to get to Flo? Yeah, OK. Well, I won't spoil it. But anyway, I would call Flo, and I would say, you know, I can't stand her because she just said this. So she did that, and Flo would smooth things out. So thank God I had this older sister. But yeah, my mom, we went through some rough times. And I think, if anything,
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You know, she told me later when we made up that I called her and I said, why didn't you trust me? And she said, you know, Tini, I trusted you. I just didn't trust the world. And I understood that. And I realized my mom was a great mom, you know, at that point. Thank God I learned that. I mean, I saw some other moms and I was like, damn, I better go call my mom. I didn't know what I had, you know?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Boo, yeah, yeah. And isn't that crazy that I'm 71 and I can remember Sister Fidelis? A lot of teachers I don't remember, but my first five minutes of school, because I was very excited about going to school. I used to go there all the time because it was right across the street. And the first five minutes, she... Some kid pointed at me, and I pointed back at him. And she said, who's talking?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And she came and got me and took me to the front of the class. And she hit us with these sticks. And I had never been spanked before. So I was like, oh my god, I don't think I want to do this. So I ran home at recess and told my mom, I don't like that. She hit me. And I was thinking my mom was going to go over there and get in her case. And my mom brought me back and said, apologize to sister.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
It feels great.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And I'm like, what? And so that's what I mean about her just being passive. And you know, my daddy used to drive the nuns and And my brothers worked in the schoolyard. All of us went to the school. And what I found out later is that my parents were actually bartering. My mom would make the altar boy uniforms and sew for this church. And I was just like, why y'all let them make us slaves?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
What's going on? But she was actually bartering, which was very unselfish of my parents. And I really appreciate that now, because they just wanted to protect us again. But but the nuns were always because we weren't paying to go to school and we were poor. And, you know, it's like teachers, kids and nurses. They were like the elite.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And they always said that that I didn't belong there and that if I only knew and they would just they would just not. they tried to break my spirit. They told me that they wanted to break my spirit. And I was like, no, you're not. In my little five-year-old head, I just became this warrior because I had to protect myself.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Right. And that stuck with you. It stuck with me. And there were many kids. Well, I won't say many because... I don't think that my mom, I don't think that they were as, it was me and my brother Skip that they really picked on. And we were the last two, I think. But there were other kids, too. Like, I remember this guy, Glenn, and my kids always saying, don't say people's last name.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
They're going to come back and sue you. But I remember Glenn. No, they've told me that many times.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
I shouldn't have said that. Then I shouldn't even say that. But anyway, don't get no ideas. Don't get no ideas. But Glenn, they would, you know, pick on him too. And his dad was a barber. And so I don't know if they just had a thing about us not feeling like we were worthy to be there with these professional kids. people's kids, you know, I don't know.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Well, at that time, I think it was more so that I just said, you're not going to break my spirit. That's all I knew, because I had a mouth on me, and I, and you know, I think, you know, I, as a kid, talked back, and I just... What did they call you? Badass Teenie B. Mm-hmm. It was really just badass teenage. And I had these older parents. So by the time I came along, they were really tired.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And they didn't discipline me like they did my brothers and sisters. With me, they were more lax. So I was always talking stuff, talking back into everything. And so it gave me that spirit to actually stand up. to them, I believe.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Nothing, just being outside of a movie. And this cop came up and said, come here. And I went over, and my friend Vanessa, who was really scary, And we went over, and he was like, what's your name? And I said, why do you need my name? And it was all these kids waiting, and we had just seen Chef. So I was feeling really like, Chef, shut your mouth. Shut your mouth. That's right.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
So, and he just kept saying, give me your name. And I said, I'm not going to give you my name. I don't know why. And so he's like, well, I'm going to take you down to the station. I said, well, take me, because I want to ask. And all the kids are saying, she didn't do nothing. She didn't do nothing. And so he puts us in a car, and he takes us to the station. And his sergeant chewed him out.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
I could see him like, what are you doing? But he came out, and he said... officer, the officer is going to take you home and not on the corner where he found you. And I was like, the corner? We were in the front of the movies. We were high school students. And he said, oh, well, you know, y'all, you look like nice girls, but y'all shouldn't be out there on the streets.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
So he had told him this story. And when we left out, he, like, talked to us so crazy because he said, the officer is going to take you home. and not take you, you know, leave you on the corner where he found you, whatever. And so when we were walking out, the guy says, is your brother's name Loomis Beyoncé?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And I said, oh, so you're, and he said, yeah, I'm the one that kicked his, and I said, well, from where I was, he kicked yours. So, you know, we had this big confrontation, and he actually said, called us some really bad names. And it was pretty bad. But that was just one of the incidences, because he actually wound up taking me to jail. Yeah, I went to jail, y'all.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Which my granddaughter just said to me the other day. She said, you went to jail? And I was like, I didn't think about that when I put that in the book. But just riding motorcycles and racing with my brother Butch. He had a bunch of kids out on the beach. And we were racing. And this guy came up, and he took me to jail.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And he rode me through the park, where if you come to Galveston, there's a park called Menard Park. And black people would just line up in their Sunday best and be out on the beach, and we would just walk, you know, people would walk through, showing off their outfits, you'd wash your car and drive through. It was like a parade, you know, it's a little small town.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Yeah, y'all know about that. So he drove me through that. So somebody saw me in the car, and they were like, Tina Beyoncé in the police car, and I'm like, oh, Lord. And they took me to jail and did a cavity search. And I talk about that in the book. And it was the most humiliating, traumatizing thing to me to be like, I think at the time I was like maybe 18. And it was terrible.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Everything.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And he put me in jail. And I wound up having to pay all these fines. And we were outside of the city limits. But this guy was just like a nightmare to us because he just harassed my family.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Okay. Same here. I mean, I would call my kids, and I'd be like... I think I talked too much. And they were like, what did you put in there? Because I sent them their parts. But I was like, they're too busy. And plus, I was scared. So I just held it from them. But they were like, what did you put in there? And I said, I tried to just tell my story. But sometimes your story includes other people.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Well, I think that that was justifiably based in fear, and it was real, but I think that when I was a teenager, I think, well, I just think to survive, that you're living in it. You don't have a choice about it, so you just don't let yourself dwell on it. But I think that my mother's fears of things gave me a fearlessness because I didn't wanna be that way.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And I wanted to, if somebody was messing with my kids, then I become a beast. I'm gonna fight. And when somebody's trying to control me, I'm gonna fight. But I got that from just not wanting to be fearful. But what I do understand is that my mama was still behind the scenes. She was protecting us in her way. I just didn't see it when I was young. I was like, she didn't protect me.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
But she did the best she could do with all the fear that she had because of the things she had been through. How could I expect her to be fearless?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
So it was scary. I've been up for days, too. I hear you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Yeah, the things that, you know, I took the good from my mom, which was so many great things, but I also... learn from the things that I felt like she didn't do such a great job on, and that was to protect my children. I think, you know, I would speak up. I would fight with people. I remember traveling with them, especially the business that they went into, entertainment. It was very scary for me.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And I remember having to go and fight with light people, fight with, you know, the music people. And here I was, this country woman from Texas with this big hair and this thick, thick accent, and people didn't really respect me because they were like, who is she to come in here and start telling us about light?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And I'd say, well, you know, I don't know about light, but I do know that they look gray and they're some black girls and you better get that blue light off of them. And I wouldn't leave until they, I wasn't aggressive, I wasn't loud, I would just stand there and they say, okay, well, can you move? No, when you change the light, I can move. And I protected them.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
I didn't let people do certain things around them. They couldn't smoke weed in the studio around them. They couldn't curse. Can you imagine? My country self in there telling these producers, I'm sorry, but can y'all not smoke in here? And I remember just having to be a little gangster sometimes. I remember one time we were in one of the first things that we went to in Florida.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And there was this group, and I'm not going to say their name, but they were behind us. And they said, oh, I'm going to go take a picture with these and call the girls. And they were like 16, 17. And they said it one time, and I was like, Tina, shut up. So you could feel yourself, right? I could feel myself. So I turned around, and they said it again. And I said, I don't see your mama out here.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Oh, no. No, but let me tell you, the record... What was that girl's name? What was her name again? Medina. Medina. Like, I'm going to Medina you up in here. So the record people came, and they were like, oh, my God, Miss Tina, you cannot do that. We've got to get you to the car. And they told me the name of the group, and they were like, they will shoot you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Well, we didn't plan it that way, but I wanted the book out for Mother's Day. There you go. And, you know, but we have an amazing team.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And I was like, well, they're going to have to shoot me because they can't talk to my girls like that. And so I did a lot of things out of just being naive, you know, because that just came out of my mouth.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Yeah, I think one of the things is just that when somebody asks me what's the best advice I can give to them, it is always that if you have more than one child, to see that child. for who they are, to try to find out what makes their clock tick or whatever, what excites them, what are their best qualities, and not compare.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
When you grow up, that was another thing that I think my mother, she liked her boys. She liked her boys.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
We have an amazing team of stylists, so they got this.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
That's right. That's right. But my mom, my brother Larry, that was just her heart and soul. So she'd be like, can you go in there and fix Larry's bed? And I'm like, no. Fix his bed? He can fix his own bed. There you go. But I think I learned from that, too, because I feel like... You can't, you know, you love your kids the same.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And then there are qualities about one that you like better maybe than the other. But it's so important to make them feel just as important. And especially when you have a five-year gap like my girls. And so one of the things is when Beyonce just wanted a little sister so bad, and she just loves Solange and adored her. Until she got one. She was ready to send her back.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
But by the time she got to be 10, she was in that group. And all of a sudden, I just started noticing that the girls in the group would say, shut up, Solange, because Solange would be in there trying to run things, trying to teach up choreography. Trying to keep up. She was trying to keep up. Keep up with her sister. And Beyonce started letting them say, shut up, Solange. Be quiet, Solange.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Mama, come get Solange, you know? And I was like, this is Solange's house. Y'all in her house. Don't you love Tina? Yes. No, I'm like, this is our house. Y'all visiting. So, you know, but I took them to therapy because I saw a division. Okay, let's stop there. She took these people to therapy.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
I love that. I did. And, you know, I remember some of my relatives saying, you're going to make them kids crazy. But I wanted them to be close. And I didn't want there to be this rivalry. And I didn't want it to be that Beyonce was not ride or die for her sister first. You don't let somebody do your sister like that. And so I took them to therapy, and I found this young man that was amazing.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And he explained it all to Beyonce, because I had been explaining it to him, but she wasn't listening. That's what they do. That's what they do. Feed children. Yeah. So things got immediately better with them. Beyonce hated therapy. Solange loved therapy. And so Solange kept going. And eventually her therapist passed away. And so she stopped going as a kid. But it was just great for them.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And, you know, I used to have to have a Solange day for her because when the kids are not... really close together, I think it's way harder. You know, when they're really close together, it's different, but I just didn't want that rivalry, and they have been close ever since.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You know, so... And they look up to them so much that that is very hurtful to the younger kid, you know, and a blow to their self-esteem.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Because that's how the comparisons come.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Well, they are both so brilliant. Yeah. I had lunch with them, and I was just like, whoa. I mean, so confident and smart and talented.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
They do, but it was just fascinating to hear them because they, it was. Those girls are, oh, I don't know what y'all all in for, but.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Yeah, we, you know, they were so smart, and they just grew up so fast, I guess because I wasn't around them all the time, and I remember when they were little.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
But you know what I remember is how they are so patient and, well, I don't know about Malia. No, and I only say that because I've had. But we.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
But I remember keeping those kids and how patient she was with the kids.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
We talked about that. Yeah, yeah. I love that. I don't want to be your little friends. We can be friends later in life.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Yeah, because it's not all fun and games. And the other thing it sets you up for is for people to lie on you and create their own narrative about your life. I have to see it every day on social media. My girls didn't want me on social media for that reason. Tina be acting up on social media. I get in trouble all the time.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You know, I read something and it just makes me so angry and my fingers just start twitching and I can't control them.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And the ability to protect your kids is nothing worse than somebody lying on your kids and saying all this horrible, crazy stuff about them. And there's nothing you could do. Because as a private citizen, you get to go on a rant on Instagram and clap back. But for me, it makes the news. And then I get the phone call. It's like, can you just be quiet?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Oh, God, it did wonders for my self-esteem because I actually started my salon when I realized that I was totally dependent on my husband financially. And I felt like- That part, y'all. Yeah. And I felt like I wanted to get out of the marriage. And I was like, what am I going to do? I just felt so dependent. And it really did work on my self-esteem.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
So I started making this plan to open my business. Now, I have to say that my ex-husband was the person who pushed me to go to beauty school. He was like, Tina, you're so talented, and you can have your own business. And so it wasn't a thing like I just snuck and did it. And he actually helped me, gave me the seed money for it. and was like the marketing mind behind it a lot of times.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
But that salon allowed me the freedom to feel I was a boss. And it would have been great if I wasn't the boss, but that made it even better. And it was, I wanted it to be a very professional place. And my friend, one of my best friends, Cheryl, is here tonight too, Cruzo, who was always encouraging me to start the business as well.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And she and I used to go to the salon and we loved it, but they were, you know, selling chicken dinners and hot stuff and it was all this gossip going on and people would go, the stylists would go sit down and eat the chicken dinner and I'm like, I got to get home to my kid. I'd be in there for four hours.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
I was like, I can't do this. And people liked the experience, but I didn't like the experience. I hated it, and she hated it, because she was a successful businesswoman. And so I started the salon, and I wanted it to be, we didn't allow any gossip. If you got gossip, you got fired immediately. We were professional. We dressed professional. Um and we got people in and out.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
We educated the stylist on on technology and we mixed it with those old fashioned heating up some olive oil and putting egg whites in and you know all of the things that I knew the hair needed. But the main thing that happened in that place was just pure love, like camaraderie between women. Because when you provide a space that is positive without that negativity, it flourishes.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Well, just because I think in your family, have you ever wondered where you got something from, where you got the strength to get through something or where you got the that feeling of fear. I mean, there are many things that I connected the dots on just looking at my ancestors and my grandparents. Both of my great grandmothers were enslaved, but they kept their kids with them.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And people love it. And women flourish. So it was more than a salon. You know, it was a place of healing. Yeah, yeah. And not looking down, not judging anybody, just... It was church. That's what it was.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Long, long, long.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
He's back. Many times. That's what Oprah says. She was like, girl. I was like, again?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Well, I just think that people have, not that I was not flawed, but I just think people have their demons. And Matthew has some demons, but I never doubted for one minute that he didn't love me and those girls. And that he didn't take care of me, he protected me.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And I think in my life, when I look back on it, I realize that I stayed so long because he protected me and I didn't have that protection so much when I was coming up. I didn't feel protected. I didn't feel fought for. Oh, they've seen the picture.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
I know. I'm like, is that funny? But no, I was, you know, and he protected me, and he was, and you know, people say, God, you stayed with him for 31 years. Well, all 31 years wasn't bad, y'all. That's right. It was a lot of really great times, and we built things together, and we were... very dedicated parents. And so we had a lot of good things, too.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And I don't have anything bad to say about him. I mean, I don't. I've forgiven him. And he's forgiven me for some times, because I'm badass teeny beef, so I'm not trying to act like I was an angel. I wasn't an angel.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Well, what I learned about me in my exiting is that, again, that message keeps reoccurring to me that I am enough because I realized that I probably would not have stayed if I had just taken the time to really look at myself and give myself credit for all the things that I had accomplished. I was just trying to survive from day to day. It was always some, you know, in therapy they tell you
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
and I've been in therapy forever, that if someone slaps you in the face and you're trying to recover for it and you get slapped again, you never can recover and get your strength because you're just slapped. I'm not saying he was slapping me, no, that wasn't happening. Don't start no rumors, but no. But I'm just saying like, it wasn't only my marriage, it was like my parents dying.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
I lost my parents at, my mom at 26 years old. Six months after I got married, then I lost my dad two years later. And it was just one thing after another. It was always something that was happening that I was fighting. And I realized that my whole life has just been filled with challenges. And when you take the time to stop and convince yourself
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
that you are enough and that, you know, you're gonna be just fine whether you're with someone or not. Say that part one more time slowly.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You know, you will be just fine and you will get, it's called getting through it because you ain't gonna get stuck there. There's light at the end of the tunnel and you're gonna go through it and you're gonna come out on the other side. And whether you are you know, young or old, I wish I would have learned that lesson a lot earlier, you know?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
So you know that that was a priority, and you know what that had to take back then, but somehow they managed to do that. And I just feel like that's such a strong thing. So I know when times have been so, so rough for me, and I've been through a lot in my life, that that's what got me through.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
About marriage and how I think that marriage is wonderful and I hope that it is in everyone's future because I think it's a beautiful way to build a life together but that the person that you choose to build it has to be on the same page. There you go. They can't be on a different page. But I think that love is wonderful. And I hope that everyone finds it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
But if you are not with a partner, I think you can have just as fulfilled, full of a life. And that is better to be by yourself than to be with somebody who don't get it. Yes. Or that's not so excited when you walk into the room that they understand that you are a prize.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You want to talk about what Johnny was, you know, by the time the girls got going really well, he was, you know, he was really sick. But just in my life since I was born, that was the person that I trusted more than anybody in the world that I felt like never judged me.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
It's those ancestors, that strength, that we were just kick-ass women that hung in there and dealt with the obstacles. Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
and didn't judge anybody else, and that was just the most creative, free person. Because think about being born in that time. Yes. If I was born in 54, he was born in 1950. He knew he was gay from probably three or four years old and how hard it was. But Johnny was my light. You know, my mama used to say, when Johnny farts, you got to be there to catch it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And it was true because I just was there. You know, every day he was my best friend. And... And I could just be really, really free with him. Yeah, he was amazing. He could cook. He could sew better than anybody. He was the sharpest. He would make these beautiful clothes. And he would be genuinely himself in front of anybody, you know, and not hide any part of him. I was so in awe of that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You know, how free he was. Yes, yeah. And he, you know, he came to work for me at the house. And, you know, it was the, even that gave me so much freedom because I knew that he was taking such good care of my girls. And they loved him. They adored him. He's the reason why, you know, there is a renaissance. And... He's a big reason why I was able to do those costumes and all of that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
He affected my life more than anybody else in my life.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Yeah, just, you know, I struggle. I have two endings to the book. And if you guys, when you read the book, you'll see that it's like an ending of the book. And then I go back and talk about my cancer journey. And the reason why I did that is because in 2022, I made my mammogram appointment. And right before it was to happen, COVID came. And they called me and told me,
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
you know, we're not doing them in person, but we'll call you when we start again. So in my mind, I just got so busy with everything else that I did not go in 23. When it came back, you know, around that time, I thought I had gone in 22, and then 24 came, and I was like, I got to go have my mammogram. I got to get all of my health things. So I did them, and...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And they actually found some spot on my cervix. And so I went back and had that biopsy. And it was fine. So I was like, I'm fine. I don't need to rush to have the mammogram. But I waited and waited. It was like five or six months before I went back. Not the mammogram, but the biopsy. And then when I went and they said, oh, you have cancer, I was like, not me. Like, it was so shocking to me.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
I think that you should research it. And there are, I mean, think about it. For me, I'm 71 years old, so. Let's just stop there. Y'all. This is what 71 looks like when you act right. I'm sorry. But I was just saying that, you know, back in my time, we didn't have Ancestry.com and all these resources that we have now. And I remember starting that process, like, many years ago, maybe...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And even though it was early stages, I went, I flew to Houston to tell my sister Flo, and I said, well, I have the first, you know, I have the lowest stage. I have stage one. And she said, no, actually, it's the stage zero. And it just hit me that I could have got this at stage zero. And I am so blessed because they still got it very early and I didn't have to go to radiation or chemotherapy.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Thank you, Jesus. But the point is, is that I could have kept going and not going. And it could have been stage four by the time I went. So I wanted people to think about that for a second. And I can tell you that one of the best things to come of this is on my Instagram, I can't tell you how many people said, I'm going to go get my mammogram. I've been putting it off for three years.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You know, we have to, as women, take the time to take care of ourselves and go get our exams and not just put it off because there's so much going on all the time and you want to take care of everybody else.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
It's the truth.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Right. And me, you know, I was in the Hamptons. I was just having a good time. And I say that because I was there, and I was like, I'm just going to stay another few weeks. And then something just hit me one day that, Tina, you better go back and get that. that biopsy, you are being very irresponsible right now.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
So I went home, you know, I went home, I think, two days later, and my kids were like, stay, don't go back. And, you know, I went, and thank God I went, because I would have came back and got busy, and then it would have been another year, and that's what happens to us. So please, please do that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
I think, you know, it's funny because I said, people approached me about a book before. And even when they approached me this time, which was different, I kept saying, I'm not telling y'all my kids' business. So if that's why they want to do a book deal, then I don't want to do it because I'm not going to share other people's stories. I'm not going to tell their business.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
But just the fact that I didn't feel like my story was worthy or that anybody wanted to hear about my story is crazy. And I had to, you know, go in. And when I first talked to them, I was like, I'll do a book on behind the scene things that happened, but I'm not going to do a memoir. And, you know, Kevin O'Leary is somewhere in the audience too, and I would love for him to stand up.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
He is my collaborator. And you know, when you write a book, your collaborator is so important, because he's the person that went and found all this history on Weeks Island and Galveston. And he taught me some things, and he fact-checked things. Because in your brain, I'm like, oh, when I was 19, so and so. And he's like, no, that didn't happen then. But really. Because he's fact-checking.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And then you argue with him, like, no, I don't know. But in talking to him at first, he was the one that encouraged me to just be more open. He's like, Ms. Tina, people would love to hear about that. And I was like, you think so? And he's like, yes. And we, you know, this book was 1,000 pages. We had to take 500 pages out. Can you imagine? So, so many more stories. And... Part two.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
14 years ago, whenever. You did ancestry? I did ancestry, and I did, but I started first just looking back to say, you know, my mom has told me these stories about my mother's family. She always told me stories about them, and I knew their names. I really didn't know my daddy's people. And so I started being interested in where the name, it's actually Beyoncé, you know, where he came from.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
But yeah, so I didn't even think that people would want to hear. I was like, they're just going to want to hear about my kids. But it's so much of the book that you go through before you even hear about my kids.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Oh, God, it's too many to... I mean, I have so many style icons back from the 40s. You know, just, I don't know, Diana Ross. Well, I think that's a good one. Yeah, yeah. I don't know, like... Okay.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Good music. Oh.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You know, my favorite song is For the Love of You by the Isley's.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
That's just the best.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Just soul food, some good old cabbage and mac and cheese and greens, yeah. You know, this is like true.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Do you even have time to watch TV these days? Not a lot. I have to be honest. I haven't watched it a lot. But I love Sisters. Oh, yeah. I love Sisters because it is just, it's some real stuff on there. Tyler just gets it, you know? Tyler tends to do that. He does that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And you know, people can talk all that stuff, but I'm like, I know somebody just like every one of those girls.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
No. Listen, you have to give up your black card if you haven't seen Cooley High. If you haven't seen Cooley High. Hand it over, put it on the stage.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Oh, God, a green flag. I think just someone being... for me, being a gentleman. Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Is I am really feeling myself right now. Woo! Woo! Feeling myself, feeling myself.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And why is my name spelled B-E-Y-I-N-C-E? Well, someone did something on Instagram that's a relative of mine, I don't know him, but there were like 17 spellings of that. And, you know, that happened to a lot of people in here.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Probably this ice thing. Have y'all tried the ice?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Yes, put your face in the ice or either get an ice cube. Blue taught me this. You take an ice cube. It's the babies.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Yeah, they get all the hacks off of YouTube.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Well, you can take an ice cube. Well, actually, Jules taught me that. He was like, Grandma, you don't have to put your face in it. OK. Because that's really hard. But just use the ice cube, and it kind of lifts up stuff.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Oh, I think to love unconditionally your children, your grandchildren, the people that you have in your life, and to be respectful and just... You know, a father figure to people that is not all about being about yourself, like an unselfishness.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
That's what it pays. I mean, you know, handling things.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You might think that was your original spelling, but when you go back and look, it's just changed, especially with people of color, because black people, because we took on these slated names, and we were called everything, or in my case, we weren't important enough for you to spell it right on my birth certificate. So all of us have different spellings.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
But it is important for you to know where you came from and to pass that on to your grandchildren, your great-grandchildren, because I never got to meet my grandmother. And my children never got to meet their grandmother. And so I started writing this book like when I got a divorce in like 19, I mean 19, look at me, I'm aging myself. And... It felt like it was that long.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Yeah, I was... And you're right. I was 59. Let me say that because I don't know what year it was, but... I just felt... We'll get to that later. Yeah, I felt very... Disconnected. I felt old at 59. Lord have mercy. This time it was 69. Can you imagine? But I just felt like my mom started thinking about mortality. And I'm like, what if my grandchildren don't get to meet me?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Not my great-grandchildren. Yes. And how would they know? Because my mom's favorite thing was keep a word going. And that meant tell the stories and keep your messages, keep your stories going generations down. And in order to do that, I had to start writing it. So that's how I started just recording it. And I was able to go back to that. you know, when we started writing.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And I encourage everybody. You know, people ask me, what do you want people to leave with? And that is what I want you to leave with, that I never thought I'd publish a book. And you don't have to publish a book. Leave it for your great-grandchildren so that they can know your history and hear it from you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Because you know your cousins would be like, oh, your mama, you know, she was over there doing this and that. Tell your own story.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Celestine, you said they called you everything but. Everything. And then I had a last name like Beyonce. That was a lot of names for a little kid in the 50s. You know, we didn't have these cool, creative names. I wanted my name to be Linda Smith or Judy. Just Linda.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
So tell the story about how you finally did change your name. Well, my mama was in the hospital, and my brothers had to take me to register me for school. So I was like, please don't tell them my name is Celeste. Please. And they were like, we don't know what to do, because they're going to look at your birth certificate. And I said, just don't give it to them.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
So we went in there, and we just said, our mama is in the hospital. We all look real sad. And we don't have the paperwork, but we promise we'll bring it back. But it's so important to my mama that we get my little sister in school. They didn't go along with it at first, but I was like begging, and my brother Larry, who was a softie, he helped me out.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And I literally, in fifth grade, changed my name to Tina. By the time we brought the paperwork, it was too late. I was Tina.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Well, I grew up in this area that was a working class neighborhood. And everybody was poor, so I don't think we knew. And we had this backyard that they would say, oh, they have a huge backyard. I went to that house with Beyonce, and she was like, mama, that is a huge backyard. But to us, it was huge, and we had a swing set, because my mama collected S&H green stamps.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Listen, my mama was serious in there. She would take all of us, and I had eight. My sister had eight. Eight children. And we would all go and we would look so pitiful and say, do y'all want y'all stamps? That's how we get our Christmas presents. Which was true, but people would just give us stamps and we would just collect them. And they got, we had ping pong sets, croquet sets.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Like my mom, that was the playground for everyone. She figured out a way to do everything.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
It's the ferry, the free ferry. But my mama would say, y'all want to go on our boat today? And we'd be like, yeah. And then I was sharing in the book that when I became a teenager, that was part of the Tina game. Because I would take my boyfriends out there and sing to them and say, you want to go on my yacht? And they'd get there, and it was the free ferry.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
We did. We had to make it through some tough times. And it was so, you know, my sister had eight children. My mom had seven, but five at home. I remember my daddy getting what they call pennies. And that was unemployment, and it was $35. Now, think about a family with seven people living in a two-bedroom house and getting $35 a week. It was some really tough times, but it was so much fun.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
We just had so much fun, and we had so many kids around. And when you fought one, you had to fight everybody. We played in that tree. We had all these games, and we really didn't realize how poor we were until somebody told us, you know?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Oh, yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Well, I think my fearlessness came from survival. You know, for someone to tell you I'm going to break the evil spirit in you and you just vibe like... I knew that if I didn't stand up to them, that they would just really abuse me.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And vain. They used to always say, and I went home and asked my mom, I was like, what is vain? And she said, it's when you think you're cute. And I was like, oh, I'm never going to have anybody think that I think I'm cute. But I would say in my head, I would call them the B word in my head because I was a little cusser. And I would just think to myself, no, you're not. No, you're not.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And stand up to them. I was just so stubborn. I mean, if you talk to anyone in my family, they will tell you how stubborn I was.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Well, that's a great question. You know, I've always preached to my daughters that you got to knock the doors down and that you should be at home at any space that you choose. And I mean, that was preached to them from the time they were younger because I wasn't given that. I wasn't given that message all the time from my mother. But what I did get from her is that it was an honor to be black.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
I think you can. This is pretty good. Well, I love this artist. He's an African artist in Lagos. And I've got several paintings from him. And he always puts cherry blossoms behind it. And his paintings remind me of my mom. You know, I grew up in this little town. raggedy house, but my mom had the most beautiful rose bushes and she just had this green thumb and there were flowers everywhere.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
That it was spicier, that it was, you know, it was strong. It was the best. That our music was the best. And our cooking was the best. The way we walked, the way we dressed. I mean, my mom loved dressing. And I mean, that's such a great thing. My daddy and my mama were sharp. They didn't have any money, but they made sure they're sharp, even if they had to get, you know, Goodwill.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
I got Goodwill shoes my whole younger life because my mom would say, I'm finding you some Buster Browns. Y'all remember Buster Browns? Anybody old enough to know Buster Browns? So I was always taught to be very, very proud of being black.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Yes. Yes. Because, you know, we didn't have a lot of boys. So I was like, the name is going to become extinct. So I named her Beyonce. Much to my dad, he was like, girl, that baby going to be really mad at you. Because you're naming her a last name.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Yes, it was very important to me to just highlight both of them, because obviously, you know, when I go on shows or I do anything, people, you know, they they like to talk about one of my children. And so I have to include all of them. Yeah, that was really, really important. It's a constant thing for me to have to fight for.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Well, it was very obvious from the very beginning because Solange, one of my girlfriends, was very structured, very educated. You know, everything had to be a certain way. Her kids made straight A's and Solange was very attracted to it. So she was always telling me I didn't measure up to Cheryl. Yeah. In no uncertain terms, you know, and Beyonce loved the freedom of not having a structure.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And Beyonce was very much like me because I never enjoyed school. I don't ever have a good memory other than the talent shows or the Black History Program or something that was creative or even home economics where I got to sew and do things. I'm that creative force. And I think for B in her creative space, I think she was very much like me.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
So I could really relate to her because she could do the work if she wanted to, but she didn't want to. If she could have skipped school, she would have skipped school and just had her music career. Oh, yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
We always had flower wallpaper and, you know, flowers were so representative of her and her spirit. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
You took the girls to the beach and Solange was very upset because what kind of mother would let us skip school? Right. She would say it all the time. She would say it to my friend Cheryl and she would say it to the therapist and the therapist is like, you know, Solange needs structure.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And I'm like, God, you know, it's like I wasn't a good mom because I love for them to miss school and hang out with me. And my mama loved for me to miss school. She would say, your stomach hurt? Okay, you don't have to go. And so I know that that wasn't the responsible thing. And she reminds me to this day of, you know, she accepts it now, Solange does.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
But when she went to see the therapist, she was like, my mama is so irresponsible. I think this is so interesting that you...
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
I got so scared because they were, like, super close. Then all of a sudden, Solange was going, taking Beyonce's stuff, and Beyonce was kind of being a little mean to her, and I had never seen it before. It scared me to death because I was like, I want them to be close, and I want them to respect and love each other. Is this after Beyonce started performing? Yeah, Beyonce was performing.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
She was this little local... you know, star and Solange was coming, doing, she started very early too, but it was like people would, if they saw the two girls, they would say, oh, God, you know, oh, she's so talented. And you know how they do. And then my other child is there, and I'm like, hey, you better tell her something, too. So I didn't have any problem doing that.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
But I saw this thing, and I think... You saw the division starting to happen. I saw the division, and also what really shocked me and made me move forward with it was the girls, the group was at our house all the time, and I just noticed they started saying, Sit down, Solange. Shut up, Solange. And Beyonce wasn't defending her.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
So that mama bear, that defender in me said, uh-uh, you got to protect your sister. She's like, but she gets on my nerves. She's all in my stuff. So that's why I took them. And it was the best thing I could have ever done for them because they got close again.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And Beyonce started respecting Solange because, you know, the therapist was saying, you're going to make your little sister, you know, feel very insecure.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
She was seven years old and she did this parochial, they called it a parochial school talent show up to high school. And I was so scared because I was like, they're going to ruin her confidence. But she got out there and just... turned into the biggest little diva on stage. And she was shy, you know, very shy. That's why we got her into it anyway. And she, we couldn't believe that it was her.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And she came off the stage. I mean, she got a standing ovation and she came off the stage and she was like, I'm hungry. I want to just get my trophy and my money and go. And I'm like, oh, my God. Because, you know, that old thing about being cocky or thinking you're cute or thinking you're all that kicked in for me. So I was like, you don't know if you won and you got to be humble.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
But anyway, it was the best thing that could happen to her because she could turn it off. Like when she came off the stage, she was just Beyonce. And she's still like that. I mean, she's the furthest thing from a diva that you could be.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Well... You know, I thought I'd never do a memoir because, as you know, my family is super private, more so than me. But I always felt like I had to protect everybody and not talk about things.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
She is because everything is seen through the lens of art. I mean, sometimes it's irritating because I'm like, girl, this ain't art. This is life. But that's how she sees things as an art piece. And it's different. It's really unique. Yes. Yes. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And there have been so many narratives about me and my family, so many misconceptions, so many lies, that I decided one day, you know, do I want people to tell my story after I'm gone and create their own narrative? Or should I tell it? So that was very, very important to me that I got the story out myself.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
It felt so normal to me because Johnny was so special. And I just thought everybody accepted. You know, we just always accepted it. And his mother accepted him and my mother accepted him. He was, you know, her favorite grandchild. And so... People respected him because we respected him. Oh, that's such a powerful thing. People respected him because the family respected him.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And my brothers respected him. My brothers were these macho athletes, and my nephews were. But they accepted Johnny. They walked down the street with Johnny and his sharp clothes, and we were proud of him, and so everybody else was. Didn't they try to get him one time to play ball, some kind of ball? Yeah, they made him play basketball. He didn't like it at all. What happened to you two? Same.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Right. They were going to macho him up a bit. But just to protect him, though, it came from a love of protection for him, not from a we're going to beat you down type way. And they left him alone after that. And they was like, Johnny, I'll make the costumes for basketball. But he didn't know how to play basketball.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Yeah. not only the record company, but when I would go to shoots and people wouldn't talk to me or, you know, because I was country and I had this big hair and I never in the early days would do myself up because I was so busy all the time. And it was also a thing of not wanting to Stand out, I think.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
You know, I've thought about it many times because I don't have a passive personality, but I would let people say things because I think I thought I deserved to be not on their level back then.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And then that all changed when? Well, it changed later, but it was a fight. The whole thing was a fight for a long time. And then, you know, but people love the costumes. The people love the costumes. The fashion magazines didn't love them. The designers didn't love them. They made fun of it all the time.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And even to the point where I remember Beyoncé went to the Oscars one year, and I did this fabulous gown with, like, origami. It was black and gold. And everybody was going crazy on the red carpet. And then when she said, finally felt comfortable to say, my mom did the dress, they said that it looked like I got the fabric out the drapes and made it for her.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Because it was like, you know, and it was so...
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
First of all, I hope that I made it very clear in the book that my whole life with Matthew was not filled with heartache, that there were some amazing moments also. I also had just lost my mom at 26. He knew my mom. I knew his mom. And what he was was so kind to my family. My family is everything to me. So imagine you losing your mom at 26. Your brothers and sisters are older.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
They got their own families, and you feel so alone. And like, that's my best friend, you know? And in a lot of ways, he had an issue, but he was so kind to me. And it sounds crazy, because that's not kind of cheat on somebody. I think he had, you know, he had an illness, but we were a team and, you know, we had kids and we built a life together. We built businesses together.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
We connected on so many levels. So I don't know, when I look at it now, I can't believe I stayed there for that long. Self-esteem issues, obviously. You know, those nuns telling me I wasn't good enough. So I was like, I'm lucky to have somebody that's successful and smart and better than me. Did you ever, in some ways, you think that?
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Oh, yeah, at times, yeah. I think you do go through that when somebody cheats on you. And it also keeps you in a cycle of it's kind of like somebody slapping you in the face and then you don't get to recover. And then you get another slap in the face. You can't really get your strength up, you know. And there were times when I did get my strength up.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
But then I would have these kids and I say, you know, I'm going to be by myself for the rest of my life because I'm not going to bring some man around my kids. You know, that was always that fear of protection. And I swear, every time somebody would start messing with me and he was my protector. He was always a protector. He's still my protector.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
If something went wrong, I would want him on my team.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Because you all are grandparents together. Yeah, we're fine. I say in the book that I still love him as a brother. Even though the things he did, I knew that they were out of an illness. They weren't intentional. And that sounds crazy. I know I still sound codependent, but... I just know that he would take a bullet for me. And if somebody messed with me, he was right there all the time.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
He was the person who always told me you could do anything. You could do anything you put your mind to. You can have whatever you want to have. I mean, he believed in me when... When nobody else did. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
He just told me that I told him what happened and he loves Richard also. And he was like, I'm very sad to hear that. And I said, but, you know, this marriage is not bringing out the best in me. And I... have finally found my worth, and I know that I deserve to be happy. I know I deserve for somebody to be happy when they see me and to celebrate me. And it's not doing it for me.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
It's bringing out the worst in me, and it's got to stop. And he said, I mean, he was teary-eyed. He was like, I am so proud of you coming from a family where women stayed no matter what. And it's taken a lot of courage. I said, I'm doing this for my daughters too. So I want to set that example for them.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And he said, you're not only doing it for your daughters, but you're doing it for your grandson. Because you think that you're doing something to stay in a marriage that's unhappy, that you're not celebrated or you feel fulfilled. You are affecting your grandson too because he wants you to be happy and how he's going to treat the woman that comes along. And I never thought about that.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
But he was just so supportive of me.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Well, that was after my divorce. And I was really nervous about it because I had been so engrossed in taking care of them and making sure that they were okay and not feeling worthy of, you know, just loving myself and taking care of myself or taking a day off. If I was in the middle of something that I really wanted to do and my girls called me, I would drop
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
whatever, whomever, and be right there. And so I felt like I had to have that talk with them to warn them. And I was scared of how they would react because, you know, you guys know, mothers are kind of taken. My kids are wonderful. They acknowledge me. They love me. They would do anything for me, but they do. Kids, it's a kid's nature to be a little self-centered, but
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
I told them, and surprisingly, they said, Mom, we're so happy to hear that because, you know, they were excited for me. They weren't pissed off about it. They were actually excited that I was going to have my own life. Lindsay, you have a question. Hi.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
I am truly at peace with myself. I have never felt better about myself in my life. There's something about turning 70 that all of my mistakes and things, the shame that I had about a lot of things, I tell them all the time, and I don't know if I can say this, but I don't give a shit. Any more about what somebody thinks of me, what they say about me, I'm just protective of my kids.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
So I don't want to ever do anything to embarrass them or make them feel bad. But other than that, what you say about me kind of rolls off my back because I... feel good about me. I feel good about taking the time for myself to look nice and to dress nice and to take care of me. I don't have any guilt or shame about it. So I feel really good about it. And I know that I made a lot of mistakes.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And I think if I had anything that I would do over again, it would be that I would have left the marriage way earlier because I still feel that I didn't set the greatest example in that way for them. I think you've done a pretty darn good job.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
It's funny because my girls will say, Mama, you don't always have to have your dukes up. You know, Beyonce tells me that all the time. But I think I had to fight for space. But I... I think, I don't know if it was the nuns telling me I didn't belong, that I fought to belong in the spaces that I've been in. And I taught them from day one that they deserve to be anywhere that they wanted to be.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And that's, again, people will not always welcome you, but you got to welcome yourself. Okay.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Oh, God. The proudest moments are when they do something that's not about entertainment, but when they do a charitable thing and they are good people, just regular good people and have good hearts. That sounds corny and it sounds like a cliche, but it's really the truth. I just get so full and so proud when they...
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
respect people and they do charity or they do, you know, something that's a normal thing. You've got to have been proud. Listen.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
But you know what? It was more so than pride. I felt like it was fair. That was my happiness. I just felt like they gave her a fair shot. Yes. For the real... You know, she's won a lot of Grammys, but sometimes I felt like some of those were consolation prizes. And so, for me... I don't know if I was so much proud as I was happy for her. Like, finally. Yeah, finally.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
You got the recognition you deserve. You got the recognition you deserved, you know? For an album that was so out of the box. Yeah. Yeah. And that came from a place of, of pride for her because when she went to that awards show, you know, she was not treated well. And it was very much me back at Holy Rosary when somebody said, you don't belong here. And, you know, you're not good enough.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And that was like saying, I took my seat at the table, whether you like it or not, and I deserve to be here. I deserve to be anywhere I want to be.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
I wondered about that. Why? But they really set us up. And if I wasn't badass Teenie B who produced badass Beyoncé, we would have said, okay, we better go back to the drawing board. Yeah. But that just made us want to fight. And it challenged her to go and get Jay on the record, which is great. But the sad part is it came because she said they wouldn't do this to Jay.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
They wouldn't tell him this, but they're telling me this.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Not from the beginning, because they talked for like a year on the phone. And I was like, oh, God, I don't ever remember talking to somebody for a year on the phone. Like, this is moving really slow. And so it took them a year to really get together when she went to do, you know, the movie in L.A. was, I think, the first time that they he had been to our house for dinner.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And, you know, but they weren't dating then and they weren't talking like that. So, yeah, it took a long time.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
That is... I can't believe how good of a mother they are. All of them. They're just... really good mothers that are natural and that they love their kids and they put their kids first. And I'm getting emotional because I feel like I passed that on because my kids were always my priority. Because I did a lot of screwing up when I was younger and I was, you know, A little bit rebellious.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And, you know, I went through the thing with being mad at my mom. And so all the things that she didn't give me, I decided I was going to give it to them.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
It was the most hurtful thing ever because I wasn't thinking about screwing in because I was really focused on getting out of that town. I don't know if I'm saying the wrong thing, but I'm just saying like I wasn't. And so it was a very painful thing for me. So what it said to you is your mom didn't trust you. She didn't trust me. But my mom told me eventually, it wasn't you that I didn't trust.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Well, just research. I was amazed by their resilience and their... ability to still take care of their kids and make sure that they weren't sold or separated from them.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And just think about how could black southern moms would fear every time your child is is out of the house. And I'm fearful every time my grandson is out of the house. You know, I'm like, you know, make sure you do this. I mean, we as black women have to teach our sons and our grandsons and our granddaughters.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Because my mom was always saying, you got the biggest mouth and you don't know how to control your temper and you're so smart mouth. If somebody stops you, just shut up. Just shut up and make it home. And that's the shame that we have to tell our kids to shut up and make it home.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
I am 70 and I just learned that I am enough. I wish I would have realized this at 40 or 50, maybe even younger, but that is why I am telling you. I've tried to collect as much of that wisdom as I can to pass on here. This precious time of gathering memories is closing. It's not an end, I know, but my new beginning.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And then... Well, they just didn't dig for people. They said there was no way that they could survive. And his brothers were like, we'll do it. You guys don't have to do it. But they put them out. And so they snuck back in after they closed. They blew the whistle at three and they dug my daddy and the other man out. So they saved them.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And instead of being applauded for it, which you would think that they would have been, they were actually arrested and fired and...
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Yeah. Because of all the camaraderie, because my sister had eight kids and my brother had four, and they all came to our house. So for me, even though we had this really poor little raggedy house, everybody was at our house. And so I just felt like... How could you feel bad about that? Because we just created our own playground, our own world.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And I just never really thought about being poor until, you know, I went to Catholic school and I was pointed out to me every day how poor we were and how unworthy we were.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Well, you don't belong here, you know, if you only knew. And I was like, what does that mean? I had no idea what that meant. And you were how old? I was five.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
It is. Yeah. It is. And it was the source of my insecurity my whole life is not belonging. are people making up their mind about you before they even know you. And it's still, I'm 71 and it's still making me emotional right now because it was such a, it's just such a horrible, evil thing to say to a kid. Because you're already insecure about everything.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
It did the opposite to me because also my parents were 44 when they had me. And I realized that after seven kids and all the struggles, they were just tired. So I just had this mouth on me from day one. And, you know, I remember my aunt used to come over and she would be like, that teeny got the... You just need to discipline her because she has no respect. But it wasn't respect.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
If she said something, I said, why? I questioned her. And my parents allowed me just because they were tired. And I had a smart mouth. And I also realized in this book that because my mother was... Yeah. To everyone. I used to get so angry at her for being so passive. And, you know, I could tell her that. And my mom would just say, oh, be quiet, teeny.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And I remember us going to like a young white woman's house and her calling my mom Agnes. They always called her Agnes. And she said, Miss Smith. miss. And I was just a little kid, but I would be like, she's younger than you. You shouldn't tell her to call you miss. And my mom would say, teeny, shut up.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Protect me, yeah. And instead... And instead my mom says, I said, I don't like them and they're really mean and I don't want to go because I thought it was optional. And she said, oh, you don't have a choice. You have to go back. And she brought me back across the street.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
So the nuns, the nuns. They came to me and said, oh, do you have a pretty white dress? It was going to be for some ceremony. Every Friday in Catholic school. During Lent, they would crown the Blessed Virgin Mary. So you get to wear a little dress, white dress, and a mantilla like you're a bride, and you get to crown the statue. And I thought, oh, God, they like me.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
So I went home, and my mom, it was on a Wednesday, and my mom got a remnant little piece of fabric and made me this beautiful dress. And then I brought the dress back, and they took the dress from me and gave it to Linda Kennison. Now, I'm 71 years old, but I remember Linda Kennison. And they said... Where is Linda Kennison today?
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And they're like, her mom passed away, and I was very sympathetic, but I was like, I still don't want her to have my dress, which set up a lot of guilt in me because I was like...
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Absolutely. And I felt so guilty because I was like, I should not be... They were like, you're selfish. You're just such a mean, vain little girl. And your mother says, give her the dress. And I'm like, I don't want her to have my dress. I mean, I was ready to fight her. And I was mad at the little girl, which made me feel bad because then my mom said, you still got your mom.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
We can make you a new dress, but she can't make another mom. So it was so confusing and abusive to a little kid. Yeah. But... The lesson in that that is so memorable for me is that the day she wore the dress, I mean, she wore the dress and crowned the Blessed Virgin Mary because she was so happy. And it meant so much to me because I did that.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And that's why my mom was so smart, because she said, you did that. You brought her that joy by giving her something that was so important to you. So my whole life, if something is really, really dear to me, when I give it away, It means so much more because it's something that I really valued.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And it's easy to give away stuff that you don't care about, but it's really hard to give away things that you love.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
I think they resented you. They resented you. It was a class thing. Yeah, it was a class thing, for sure, because they felt like their self-worth was tied into teaching a teacher's kids, and they shouldn't have to be bothered with us little poor kids. Like, we just didn't measure up, and so it was a waste of their time. That's what I've got from them all the time, for sure.